Alcohol or Pump Gas?

pdw5000 · May 27, 2008

I am new to Stangnet and this is my first post. I have been building my 68 mustang since I was 16 and now that I am out of college and have the money I am finishing it.

I just contracted a local engine builder that specializes in ford performance engines to build me a 408 stroker. The engine I'm building is "suppose" to put out 600 bhp. The builder told me he can easily build the engine to run off alcohol instead of pump gas simply by changing the setup on the carb and the fuel delivery system. He said that alcohol right now is cheaper than pump gas and it would add about 30hp over gas. I wanted to get everyones opinion about setting the car up for alcohol. What are the pros and cons?

I want the car to be as aggressive as possible so that is not a concern.

blown65 · May 27, 2008

lol, funny this came up cause I was thinking of running E85 but no one here sells it.

Are you talking E85 or real Alcohol as a race fuel? E85 is rated at around 105 octane. Alcohol is rated much higher, and usually ppl run high compression with it. You have to remember though, with Alcohol your going to use twice as much as Gasoline. E85 ins't nearly as bad, but you still use quite a bit more. Just looking at it from the fuel being less expensive isn't really applying the whole picture of things.

Race car alky
Drag/Limited street use E85
Daily Driver Gas. IMO

pdw5000 · May 27, 2008

The engine builder was refering to the same alcohol that he uses in his 8 sec drag car so I would assume it's race alcohol not E85.

blown65 · May 27, 2008

pdw5000 said:
The engine builder was refering to the same alcohol that he uses in his 8 sec drag car so I would assume it's race alcohol not E85.

Whats your plans with the car then? I mean, you say as aggressive as possible, but remember your burning twice as much fuel too. Usually ppl talk Race Gas vs Alcohol not Pump gas vs Alcohol.

Shamus O'toole · May 27, 2008

You will use twice as much alcohol as you would pump gas. So in reality there isn't much cost gain at all. Alcohol will run cooler and can handle higher compression better then pump gas.

10secgoal · May 27, 2008

Shamus O'toole said:
You will use twice as much alcohol as you would pump gas. So in reality there isn't much cost gain at all. Alcohol will run cooler and can handle higher compression better then pump gas.

And it's very hard on rubber parts. Like all the ones in your carb.

BarnStang · May 27, 2008

Our busness partner buys three 55 gal drums of alcohol each season for the Prostreet car. That lasts for more than several car shows, spring and fall at Ocean City... It sucks it down like crazy. It's got a huge blower, but still. Running through a modified carb might be a bit more conservative, but the jets would still need to be at least twice as big or more I would think.

65ShelbyClone · May 27, 2008

Before anyone makes this more confusing, I would like to clarify some things.

E85, aka "ethanol", is 15% gasoline and 85% ethyl alcohol.

The "real" or "race" alcohol being referred to in this thread is methanol, aka methyl alcohol.

There are also isopropyl alcohols, butyl alcohols, amyl alcohols, etc.

If you can get methanol for less than pump gas, more power to you. Around here it's usually $8/gal. Even if you get for half the cost gasoline, you will still be burning more than twice as much under power. Keep in mind that it is in no way a practical fuel for a frequently driven vehicle and certainly not practical for a street car. Racers usually drain their fuel systems and flush them with gasoline to prevent the rapid onset of corrosion and water absorption. The engine oil also gets contaminated in short order and requires frequent changes. The gains are also nowhere near fully realized unless the engine is actually built for the fuel.

pdw5000 said:
He said that alcohol right now is cheaper than pump gas and it would add about 30hp over gas.

This line leads me to believe that the engine builder was talking about E85. Methanol alone should show gains of 10-15% or better, which would put a 600hp gas 408 in the 660-690hp range.

Bottom line is that if this is going to be a street car, and I suspect it is, E85 is the only fuel worth considering outside of pump gas.

blown65 · May 27, 2008

65ShelbyClone said:
Before anyone makes this more confusing, I would like to clarify some things.

E85, aka "ethanol", is 15% gasoline and 85% ethyl alcohol.

The "real" or "race" alcohol being referred to in this thread is methanol, aka methyl alcohol.

There are also isopropyl alcohols, butyl alcohols, amyl alcohols, etc.

If you can get methanol for less than pump gas, more power to you. Around here it's usually $8/gal. Even if you get for half the cost gasoline, you will still be burning more than twice as much under power. Keep in mind that it is in no way a practical fuel for a frequently driven vehicle and certainly not practical for a street car. Racers usually drain their fuel systems and flush them with gasoline to prevent the rapid onset of corrosion and water absorption. The engine oil also gets contaminated in short order and requires frequent changes. The gains are also nowhere near fully realized unless the engine is actually built for the fuel.

This line leads me to believe that the engine builder was talking about E85. Methanol alone should show gains of 10-15% or better, which would put a 600hp gas 408 in the 660-690hp range.

Bottom line is that if this is going to be a street car, and I suspect it is, E85 is the only fuel worth considering outside of pump gas.

Ya, sorry for blurring that. Lots of ppl refer them all the time the same.

jerry S · May 28, 2008

Shamus O'toole said:
You will use twice as much alcohol as you would pump gas.

My 69 Mach 1 goes through a tank of gas every two hours on the highway and while I have a hot build at 450+ hp, it ain't close to that 600 hp 408. If he uses 2x as much fuel, he will prolly be buring fuel at 2x the rate I am and that means filling up every 60 mins of freeway driving. That is a lot of cabbage to be spending.

pdw5000 · May 28, 2008

Since I will be burning so much fuel with this motor I am afraid I might run out when I'm driving around so I better be running a fuel that I can fill up at a gas station.

I think I am going to stick to pump gas. 600hp on pump gas is not to shabby.

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