Aluminum DOHC into 2000GT?

klrskies · May 31, 2004

How much trouble and how much performance gain?

Aaron 4.6 · May 31, 2004

Trouble is mostly in getting all the little parts and pieces, and in some wiring. A lot of people do it. Its an engine swap, but an easy one as engine swaps go.

Performance gain? Well, that would depend on which engine you choose to drop in. A stock 96-98 engine will pick up 45 hp over a stock 99+ 2V. A stock 2001 engine will pick up 60 hp. A stock 2003 engine will give you an extra 140 hp. yada yada yada....

klrskies · May 31, 2004

How much weight difference? Are their any problems useing the aluminum block?

CuddaWuddaShuda · May 31, 2004

I don't know the answer about weight difference.

Doesn't the Cobra crank have a different bolt pattern? I hope someone can explain what issues that poses. I guess you'd need a new flywheel.

I have always wondered about using the 4V heads on a regular GT motor. To me, that seems like the obvious modification to make. I don't give a flip about the aluminum block, but I could sure use some better-breathing heads. As far as head-swaps go, it seems like this would be a good one. Now there would be other issues like the computer, intake, etc., but it sure seems a lot simpler than swapping the whole motor.

I also wonder why so many people swap early 2V heads out for later (PI) heads. Shouldn't they go ahead and put on the 4V heads? OK, they are a little more expensive, but cost-of-parts is just one aspect of a job like that. If you're going through all the trouble to swap heads (labor cost, worrying about getting it done right, worrying about intake / computer / accessory drive, etc.), it seems like you might as well get the best damned heads you can find.

EDIT: I found info on the block weights. The iron block is 154lbs, the aluminum block is 86lbs. So (excluding the weight of the extra cams) you're saving 68lbs, which is significant. I think I have heard that 50lbs is worth a tenth in the quarter. And that's overall weight... the block is right up front, which makes its weight more signficant.

Heathdude · May 31, 2004

100 lbs = 0.10 sec.

There was an article in a recent MM&FF on a 2 valve to 4 valve swap. It seems to be much more trouble than it's worth

Wikkdgt · May 31, 2004

If you chose the 2003 4V wouldn't you have to changed the transmission too since it's a 6 speed?

gdear66 · May 31, 2004

I don't believe a simple head swap from the 2V to 4V is possible. #1 the intake and exhaust ports are different, #2 the piston flanges are different, #3 the timing is different, #4 the computer would have to be redone. It an engine swap to go from 2V to 4V. Then you have to get into new motor mounts, possibly a new radiator. I don't know if you'd need a new flywheel or not.

GoBabyVroommm · May 31, 2004

I think the swap was totally worth it. That is just me though.

klrskies · May 31, 2004

Anybody else done the engine swap?

Aaron 4.6 · May 31, 2004

gdear66 said:
I don't believe a simple head swap from the 2V to 4V is possible. #1 the intake and exhaust ports are different, #2 the piston flanges are different, #3 the timing is different, #4 the computer would have to be redone. It an engine swap to go from 2V to 4V. Then you have to get into new motor mounts, possibly a new radiator. I don't know if you'd need a new flywheel or not.

Jesus Christ....

Is this the level of tech that we are bringing to the forum these days? I'm about to bag this account and start staking out some other places to post if things don't improve around here. Yesterday I have to read about 'SEVERLY SHORTENING THE LIFESPAN OF YOUR GEARS' and today I get to read about piston flanges.

Would someone explain what in the hell a piston flange is? What kind of bull**** is this? If there is ONE thing that has been beaten to death on a level with the 3.73 vs. 4.10 thing, its that you CAN PUT 4V HEADS ON AN IRON 4.6 BLOCK. The 2003 Cobra is living proof. The Tymensky car is living proof. You need an intake. You need a timing cover. You do not need a computer. This ground has been covered long ago, by which I mean the late 1990s. Buy the Sean Hyland book if you want to learn some of the detailed differences between all the modular components.

The issue is cost effectiveness. Its cheaper to buy a complete 4V motor than to try to cobble one together out of parts. Its easier too, so that typically seals the deal. Check out http://www.cobrapoweredgt.com for car owners that have done this swap.

Of course, I would hate to neglect this gem....

clueless newbie said:
If you chose the 2003 4V wouldn't you have to changed the transmission too since it's a 6 speed?

That's ri-****-ulous. The fact that the 6 speed is a popular swap into older cars should be enough of a clue that you can go the other direction.

Sigh.

kirkyg · May 31, 2004

gdear66 said:
I don't believe a simple head swap from the 2V to 4V is possible. #1 the intake and exhaust ports are different, #2 the piston flanges are different, #3 the timing is different, #4 the computer would have to be redone. It an engine swap to go from 2V to 4V. Then you have to get into new motor mounts, possibly a new radiator. I don't know if you'd need a new flywheel or not.

From what i understand the motor is a direct swap. You dont need new motor mounts or a new radiator. Everything bolts right up. The engine will even run on 19 lbs. injectors just need to tune it to get it running smooth...and if you get 25 lbs injectors made for a 2valve harness you wont even necessarily need that to get it running good. (go to http://www.cobrapoweredgt.com to see all the details).

The main problem is these 4 valve blocks for the most part are low production engines and can be costly. Your looking at a minimum of $2500 for an engine with potentially 50k+ miles on it. Theres not much that can be had cheaper.

kirkyg

twogts4us · May 31, 2004

Aaron 4.6 said:
Jesus Christ....

Is this the level of tech that we are bringing to the forum these days? I'm about to bag this account and start staking out some other places to post if things don't improve around here. Yesterday I have to read about 'SEVERLY SHORTENING THE LIFESPAN OF YOUR GEARS' and today I get to read about piston flanges.

Would someone explain what in the hell a piston flange is? What kind of bull**** is this?

I'm with ya Aaron. If you get tired of this and really wanna get pissed, head over to Mustang Talk where they discuss getting drunk, puking, getting puked on, pets puking, relatives or family members sick, dying or dead...
I, too, am really getting tired of some of this crap...
Head over to MD

klrskies · May 31, 2004

I also found another Ford aluminum 4.6 DOHC but I don't think it came out of a cobra. How can I tell if this engine would work? I am thinking it may have come out of a large Ford / Mercury sedan, but I don't know. Are these engines canidates for a swap?

bdcardinal · May 31, 2004

you can use ANY aluminum block except for the one out of the fwd lincoln continentals. there is a reason why these motors are called MODULAR. if it says fwd on the block throw it away. btw no crown vic or grand marquis or town car came with an aluminum block except for the 03/04 marauder. the older 4.6 aluminum blocks are actually really desireable. READ SEAN HYLANDS BOOK, all of your questions will be answered in that.

XtorT'r · May 31, 2004

Wasn't the Mark "XXCM" the car that the old aluminum blocks were comming from?

bdcardinal · May 31, 2004

lincoln mrk 8's had the 4.6 dohc aluminum motor before the cobras did, the blocks and heads are identical to the 96-98 snakes ie teksid italian block. the mrk 8 had different intake cams and different intake manifold. the continentals also had an aluminum 4.6 dohc motor however they were fwd and had a different bellhousing mounting section and therefore do not work with any of the rwd motors.

klrskies · Jun 1, 2004

Thanks bdcardinal. Do you know where on the block the "FWD" letters are located?

bdcardinal · Jun 1, 2004

i beleive it is on the front of the block, but just look all over the block, if you see fwd anywhere its not usable unless you want to build a continental.

YLW99VERT · Jun 1, 2004

Aaron 4.6 said:
Jesus Christ....

Is this the level of tech that we are bringing to the forum these days? I'm about to bag this account and start staking out some other places to post if things don't improve around here. Yesterday I have to read about 'SEVERLY SHORTENING THE LIFESPAN OF YOUR GEARS' and today I get to read about piston flanges.

Would someone explain what in the hell a piston flange is? What kind of bull**** is this? If there is ONE thing that has been beaten to death on a level with the 3.73 vs. 4.10 thing, its that you CAN PUT 4V HEADS ON AN IRON 4.6 BLOCK. The 2003 Cobra is living proof. The Tymensky car is living proof. You need an intake. You need a timing cover. You do not need a computer. This ground has been covered long ago, by which I mean the late 1990s. Buy the Sean Hyland book if you want to learn some of the detailed differences between all the modular components.

The issue is cost effectiveness. Its cheaper to buy a complete 4V motor than to try to cobble one together out of parts. Its easier too, so that typically seals the deal. Check out http://www.cobrapoweredgt.com for car owners that have done this swap.

Of course, I would hate to neglect this gem....

That's ri-****-ulous. The fact that the 6 speed is a popular swap into older cars should be enough of a clue that you can go the other direction.

Sigh.

Thank You! Someone close to where this guy lives...buy him a beer!!

CuddaWuddaShuda · Jun 1, 2004

Aaron 4.6 said:
Would someone explain what in the hell a piston flange is? What kind of bull**** is this?

You can't discount the piston flange issue. Everyone knows that iron block has thrombolitic piston flanges which tend to become brittle and distended with age. My buddy has a '77 Nova with an electric supercharger, slapper bars, and a Pontiac 301 and he says it would run low sixes in the eigth-mile if it weren't for those damn stock piston flanges.

Aluminum DOHC into 2000GT?

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