MS3 Pro

[Mustang5L5]

I originally did because of the MSDIY kit. I'm an electrician and electronics hobbyist, and it was a great project for me.

Same. I got into MS due to the DIY nature of the kit about 5-10 years ago. Also an electrician and engineer, so it was just right up my alley. After that, i was just familiar with the setup and Tuner Studio so I stuck with what I knew. Built an MS3X box, customized it with some add ons, but later just did a plug-and-play unit for my car which was pretty quick and simple to get up and running.


From a more wider perspective, the cost of MS is cheaper (not by much anymore), and you don't need to worry about wiring. However, if your wiring on your engine is junk, then that isn't going to help you and you need to buy a universal type MS and wire it in. So could be a wash if you can't run a plug-and-play kit. I do think you can do more things with MS and add on more inputs and outputs to tailor your setup. It's more for the tinkerer, and the dash options for MS are a result of that.

Downside is finding a tuner. Holley tuners are everywhere. MS tuners..not so much.

I usually say if you want to get up and running and don't want to waste time tuning and/or want it done for you, Holley is probably the best approach. If you want to learn the art of tuning and feel like you will want to customize a bit, MS gives you options.


I have absolutely nothing against the Holley setup and would love to play with it. If someone wants to throw a Terminator X at me for free i'll mess around with it, but at this point I'm just gonna stick with what I know and am done throwing money at the car for the most part.

 

[TOOLOW91]

95 percent of the terminator x issues are user install issues. Period. I’ve done 6 term x cars. I’ve had one failure and that was one car that sat outside while we were stripping for paint and unknown to us the seam sealer rotted at the kick panel behind the fender -water got in and got the ac module from painless and shorted the ecu when it powered up.

One dominator small tire race car and my own Holley hp car to start.

They are all still running and going no issue.

I do prefer the hp or the dominator though If I have a choice. Stock gauges can work and you’d never know it was there. The 6.87 and 12 inch dash you can build completely custom displays online for them and have multiples depending on what data set you need.

I love this forum and this isn’t aimed at anyone but here it’s more of a cult following for MS which I personally don’t get due to lack of support. I see some of the allure but support is non existent in most places. Just my .02.

 

[revhead347]

I love this forum and this isn’t aimed at anyone but here it’s more of a cult following for MS which I personally don’t get due to lack of support. I see some of the allure but support is non existent in most places. Just my .02.

I wouldn't say it's a cult. MS has just been around a lot longer. I want to know how that Terminator holds up in 10 years, not how it ran out of the box. I am pretty sure I went through 5 of those MSD Digital 6 boxes. I took the last one apart and it looked like it was someone's Home Depot aprons project inside. Holley is the enemy of modern performance. Take a great idea and farm it out to China on a limited production run to the cheapest bidder. That's all they do.

Kurt

 

[TOOLOW91]

I wouldn't say it's a cult. MS has just been around a lot longer. I want to know how that Terminator holds up in 10 years, not how it ran out of the box. I am pretty sure I went through 5 of those MSD Digital 6 boxes. I took the last one apart and it looked like it was someone's Home Depot aprons project inside. Holley is the enemy of modern performance. Take a great idea and farm it out to China on a limited production run to the cheapest bidder. That's all they do.

Kurt

Kurt I’m coming up on almost 9 years with my Holley in my coupe - it is an hp though. Other personal friends of mine longer than that. This forum definitely is heavy on using the ms stuff which was why I made my statement.

While I don’t agree with holleys business practices these days on most things , the ecus work if the install is done right and it’s one of the most supported by tuners in the country by a long shot. Any drag strip , any tuning shop , and maybe even most big car show events you’re bound to find a person who knows the way through the Holley. I can’t say the ssme
About Ms and I have been small tire racing all over the east coast.

 

[95BlueStallion]

My personal friend and tuner is an MS guy. He is trying to convince me to go to an MS3 as well. Showed me the DIY dash and all. It would be nice to be rid of all the analog gauges, I agree. I'll be watching to see how yours turns out.

 

[revhead347]

My personal friend and tuner is an MS guy. He is trying to convince me to go to an MS3 as well. Showed me the DIY dash and all. It would be nice to be rid of all the analog guages, I agree. I'll be watching to see how yours turns out.

I promise to deliver as I always have. Lots of pics, lots of info, lots of details, and....maybe some videos for once. The hardest part of doing anything with a car is the vacuum of information. People just don't share enough. I'm going to look at a big butt trailer next week because I am tired of renting.

Kurt

 

[2000xp8]

What is a big butt trailer?
An online search yields many results, most of which are big butt short movie trailers, many are indeed entertaining to say the least, but have little to no relevance to automobiles. I'm being serious, so if you have a desk job, don't look it up at work.

The reason i asked about why people use the MS stuff vs the holley is that my current setup uses the factory 03 cobra computer with a chip in, my buddy no longer has what is needed to program the chip (i'm pretty sure it's an SCT chip, but i haven't looked in there in 15 years). The OBDII port will read, but i stripped a lot of wiring out of it and if i were to run a full system scan, it fails to complete, though it will read real time information.
Not sure how i have this thing wired is the right long term solution.
While i don't need a whipple, I'm known to buy stuff I don't want when it's priced right.
So as of right now, i'm all good.
If i needed support, i can say for sure, Holley would be easiest to come by.

As for failure rates, my guess would be holley outsells MS 20 to 1 (maybe more) so odds are the more you sell, the more failures you hear about, doesn't mean one is more reliable than the other.
I don't know much about MS, but at a glance I don't see where they say all the parts are sourced. So many places play the American made game, when it reality, it was just assembled here.

 

[nickyb]

What is a big butt trailer?
An online search yields many results, most of which are big butt short movie trailers, many are indeed entertaining to say the least, but have little to no relevance to automobiles. I'm being serious, so if you have a desk job, don't look it up at work.

The reason i asked about why people use the MS stuff vs the holley is that my current setup uses the factory 03 cobra computer with a chip in, my buddy no longer has what is needed to program the chip (i'm pretty sure it's an SCT chip, but i haven't looked in there in 15 years). The OBDII port will read, but i stripped a lot of wiring out of it and if i were to run a full system scan, it fails to complete, though it will read real time information.
Not sure how i have this thing wired is the right long term solution.
While i don't need a whipple, I'm known to buy stuff I don't want when it's priced right.
So as of right now, i'm all good.
If i needed support, i can say for sure, Holley would be easiest to come by.

As for failure rates, my guess would be holley outsells MS 20 to 1 (maybe more) so odds are the more you sell, the more failures you hear about, doesn't mean one is more reliable than the other.
I don't know much about MS, but at a glance I don't see where they say all the parts are sourced. So many places play the American made game, when it reality, it was just assembled here.

Think we got a American made thread here some dam place.

 

[Sparky714]

As for failure rates, my guess would be holley outsells MS 20 to 1 (maybe more) so odds are the more you sell, the more failures you hear about, doesn't mean one is more reliable than the other.
I don't know much about MS, but at a glance I don't see where they say all the parts are sourced. So many places play the American made game, when it reality, it was just assembled here.

I would say 20 to 1 would be on the conservative side, probably way more than that. You'd be hard pressed to find very many electronic components made in the U.S., but engineered and assembled here is better than nothing. If I was just interested in getting a vehicle up and running as quickly as possible, Holley would be the way to go. My MSDIY kit has been rock solid for the last 9 years. I'm recently retired so I have plenty of free time, so I'm going to use ChatGPT and what I've learned about MS tuning in that time to get my new engine build up and running on the MS ecu I have. We'll see how that goes.

 

[HotFox]

Following for my 430cid SBF NA in my 92. Has had a carb since I bought with the 331cid so starting with a carb on the new engine build, but did buy a super victor EFI with intentions of going EFI later, ports will be plugged for now. There is no EFI wiring left so will need to make or buy a harness. I know enough about wiring that I would be comfortable building a portion or all the wiring. The question is MS or Holley?

 

[revhead347]

What is a big butt trailer?
An online search yields many results, most of which are big butt short movie trailers, many are indeed entertaining to say the least, but have little to no relevance to automobiles. I'm being serious, so if you have a desk job, don't look it up at work.

As for failure rates, my guess would be holley outsells MS 20 to 1 (maybe more) so odds are the more you sell, the more failures you hear about, doesn't mean one is more reliable than the other.
I don't know much about MS, but at a glance I don't see where they say all the parts are sourced. So many places play the American made game, when it reality, it was just assembled here.

The big driver for me was the instrument cluster. MS offers a really nice instrument cluster for it, and the Holley one looks like a tablet glued to the dash. Speaking of which, guess what arrived today. I can sure tell you it was packed in America. I'm sure there are foreign components in this thing, but those very rarely have human hands touching them. It's the person on the bench with the soldering iron that leads to quality problems usually.

As for the other stuff, and I know this isn't really a car thing, but the best thing you can do for your community is spend your money in it. This MS3 employees people in Gainseville, GA. I buy all my meat from local Georgia ranchers and farmers. I'm driving 8 hours tomorrow to buy a trailer made in Douglas, Georgia. The big butt one. I mean this State has a budget surplus ever year, and gives income tax refunds with it. It's a win win situation.

Kurt

 

[revhead347]

Well, crank no start today. Wha Wha. Guess I'll have to dig in.

Kurt

 

[86HO5.0]

Did the fuel pump prime? Base timing set correctly?

I've been running MS3 (Stinger Performance PimpXS) for over 5 years and know my way around Megasquirt and Tuner Studio pretty well. Feel free to reach out if you need any help.

 

[revhead347]

Did the fuel pump prime? Base timing set correctly?

I've been running MS3 (Stinger Performance PimpXS) for over 5 years and know my way around Megasquirt and Tuner Studio pretty well. Feel free to reach out if you need any help.

Fuel pump primed. I set the base timing at 11 before I took the old computer out. I did a few things before attempting a start. I went into general settings to adjust for 30lb injectors using the calculator. I have 2 AMP wideband controllers at Can 80 and Can 81. I followed the instructions to set those up which was basically to select AMPwideband in the CAN EGO thingy. The instructions were pretty vague. I did open up both wideband boxes and set them not to terminate. The CAN BUS terminates at the DD-EFI instrument cluster. I found a chord I can program the DD-EFI instrument cluster. So I think I am going to set that up tomorrow to ensure the CAN BUS is communicating. Any help is appreciated. Computers are not my strong suit. Just trying to get it to start, I am not tuning it myself.

Kurt

 

[86HO5.0]

Can you send a copy of your tune?

What are you engine specs and ignition type?

 

[revhead347]

Can you send a copy of your tune?

What are you engine specs and ignition type?

I have whatever tune came with the box minus those 2 changes. I wasn't expecting it to run well, but I thought it would at least pop off. I also have the optional flex fuel sensor which I haven't had time to setup. Maybe I need to do that too. It's a 347 engine that makes about 425hp with a custom cam and Canfield heads. Not sure how much of the specs you need. It's a factory ignition with a Daytona Sensors CD-1 ignition box.

Kurt

 

[86HO5.0]

Can you send a copy of your tune file?

 

[revhead347]

Can you send a copy of your tune file?

Possibly. I need to figure out how to do that first. Thanks for your help. I need to set up the instrument cluster. I have also been told I need to check something called a tooth logger.

Kurt

 

[revhead347]

Is this it? There is a file in there called "current tune."

 

[revhead347]

Update, I drove down to diyautotune today to have them look at my setup on TunerStudio. Some genius had downloaded the wrong firmware. Car fired right up.

Kurt