Am I getting played with? or is this really the case about cams?

Serper3 · May 2, 2007

Hey guys, I am just wondering what’s going on with prices nowadays! I guess $100 per hour for labor is pretty standard, but I am seriously considering cams so I called Apex Motorsports here in Santa Clara to see how much a tune and install would be(Apex works on Fords but mostly stangs). They said the tune with an xcal would be 750 and they told me to go to Mustang Ranch also here in Santa Clara, California to do the install because apparently Apex doesn’t do work on modular engines. So I called Mustang Ranch and they said they would have to pull the motor for the cam install!! They said it would be about 15 hours of labor for the whole install. This then means I would be paying 1500 for install, 750 for tune and about 800 for the cams and springs! Does anyone else think the install time is high? What about the tune price? Who else here has cams and how much did you guys end up paying? If anyone has any other places that I could go to get this done in or around the bay area, please let me know! Thanks!
:SNSign:

COramprat · May 2, 2007

Not sure why they would pull the motor but the install time is about right. Do you have a place to do it yourself?

Definatly not worth that expense

san~man · May 2, 2007

Pulling the motor is the easier way, but not absolutely necessary.

Serper3 · May 2, 2007

I guess i have a place to do it, i just dont have the special tools and experience to degree and etc... kinda scared to tackle this big of a job but now i am thinking if i should just buy the tools and do it... i did all the other stuff i have done to the car myself so not sure what to do.. any other ideas about aprox install time?

bdcardinal · May 2, 2007

they pull the motor because its a lot easier to do with the motor out of the car. the install time is about right. and ya, $100 an hour is cheap.

Serper3 · May 2, 2007

damn.. so if 15 hours is about right, did u all spend 1500 or so to install...? it just seems ridiculous... i thought it would be like 5-7 hours... so what did u guy all do about ur cam install? u all did it urselves or dished out 1500? what about the tune, is that reasonable as well?
thanks guys for ur quick replies!

Red35th · May 2, 2007

In Dallas installs run $500 and a little higher. $1500 is insane.

I lieu of paying $750 for a tune, just pay for a mail order from Modularpowerhouse.com, then check the a/f and change as necessary.

I know things are a bit more money in Cali, but that install price is off the charts. That's half way to a forged shortblock.

Goodluck with it.

Serper3 · May 2, 2007

Red35th said:
In Dallas installs run $500 and a little higher. $1500 is insane.

I lieu of paying $750 for a tune, just pay for a mail order from Modularpowerhouse.com, then check the a/f and change as necessary.

I know things are a bit more money in Cali, but that install price is off the charts. That's half way to a forged shortblock.

Goodluck with it.

see thats what i was thinking.. if it was like 750 to install w.e i would be up for it.. thats a good idea about the mail tune.. do u know how expensive that would be? thanks for ur input! cars are so expenisve...
:SNSign:

honostly, if i could do it for 500-600 in dollars it might be worth the drive!
lol

streetstang03 · May 2, 2007

i believe MPH charges $400 for Tim's incredible tune

Serper3 · May 2, 2007

streetstang03 said:
i believe MPH charges $400 for Tim's incredible tune

thats pretty sweet! saving $350! anyone know of any shops here in the bay area or not too far away that will install for a decent price?
thanks for all ur help guys!!
on a side note, if cams would be 1500 or close to their, how much is a blower install typically? that i heard should take aprox 8 hours and i would prolly be able to do that myself so maybe i just wait a bit and get a blower?
thanks guys! i have been franticaly trying to decide what i wanna do lately, but i was leaving towards cams because i thought i could have em all in their for under 2000..

kaostik · May 2, 2007

paying 1500 for install, 750 for tune and about 800 for the cams and springs

so, just over $3,000 total for what, 35 - 40 RWHP????

hotmustang331 · May 2, 2007

AHAHAHA Thats absolutly rediculous! Totally not worth the money. just go with VT stg1 cams, that way you dont have to change the valve springs and if you must have someone else do it, they can do it MUCH MUCH faster.

Serper3 · May 3, 2007

hotmustang331 said:
AHAHAHA Thats absolutly rediculous! Totally not worth the money. just go with VT stg1 cams, that way you dont have to change the valve springs and if you must have someone else do it, they can do it MUCH MUCH faster.

that sounds good, because from what i saw, the difference between stage 1 and two is pretty minimal, but what about when i port heads? what kinda difference in hp loss can i see with the stage 1's vs the 2's?
also, i did searching and i couldnt really find anything about the different brands, if i do go with stage 1 cams, prower, vt, comp whats the difference and whats better? is a tune necesary with stage 1's? i believe it isnt but recomended..
thanks alot for ur help guys!
really appreciate it have been on the forum for like the last prolly 10 days just going through old posts and searching etc..
:SNSign:

TrueBlue03 · May 3, 2007

man now you know what i've been dealing with for almost a half a year now.... been so hesitant to get cams.
I been lookin for ages to get some cams installed because i dont have all the tools and space to do it on my own as a college student.....and EVERYWHERE in the san jose area will end up telling you that it will be a 7 to 8+++ hour job with labor costs of $100+ per hour. Apex was the first place i went and they told me they'd never done the install before, but they'd be happy to try it even though they said it might take as long as 12 - 14 hours worth of labor at $100 per hour

i finally found someone who actually wants to do it and hopefully for a good price. he installs cams and superchargers on modded bmw's and mercedes all day long and he told me he wanted to do the install. I dont know whether or not i want him workin on the car, but he showed me some of his customers projects and his work looked pretty good

hotmustang331 · May 3, 2007

Yep, just takes basic skills to do it. So if he knows how to work on BMWs and the such, he should have NO problem with a 2V.

And serper3, I think that even with ported heads you MAY only see a 10RWHP difference at best. Generally a cams/heads 2V will make 310+RWHP. To make bigger power N/A your best bet would be custom cams for your application...when you get the heads you want that is.
For now, all the cams that do not require a valve spring change will make about the same power. I have VT stg 1 cams and am still on the stock springs and the such...I also made a writeup on how to do it yourself. Its in the tech section and just search for "installing VT cams" .

I would recommend degreeing the cam in...but its not needed and safes ALOT of time. I didnt do it...along with MANY others...and as long as you dont skip a tooth on the cam gear there wont be any problems and it should run great.
Degreeing the cam in though will make a little more power and will allow you to be 100% sure that they are installed @ 0*s as the Ford cam gears can vary from the factory, and with larger cams can send your piston into a valve!....this will also require aftermarket adjustable cam gears BTW.

Serper3 · May 3, 2007

TrueBlue03 said:
man now you know what i've been dealing with for almost a half a year now.... been so hesitant to get cams.
I been lookin for ages to get some cams installed because i dont have all the tools and space to do it on my own as a college student.....and EVERYWHERE in the san jose area will end up telling you that it will be a 7 to 8+++ hour job with labor costs of $100+ per hour. Apex was the first place i went and they told me they'd never done the install before, but they'd be happy to try it even though they said it might take as long as 12 - 14 hours worth of labor at $100 per hour

i finally found someone who actually wants to do it and hopefully for a good price. he installs cams and superchargers on modded bmw's and mercedes all day long and he told me he wanted to do the install. I dont know whether or not i want him workin on the car, but he showed me some of his customers projects and his work looked pretty good

by all day long do u mean he has a shop and stuff? i actually talked to a guy today who has a good friend who has a shop and does some stuff like this.. the guy also has a blown fox body stang so i think it gives him more credibility... i should find out tmrw how much he will want for the install....
7-8+ hours of install time.. is that for stage 1 install without installing the valve springs?
thats funny that apex wanted to do it on ur car.. they said they dont work on modular engines and they sent me over to mustang ranch...
i think for 700 i would prolly just do it.. then it would be like 550 or so for the cams and about 400 for the tune from mph... thats like 1600 and that i can actually work with...
what kinda cams are u planning on getting though?
btw u go to SCU right? i think i read somewhere on here before that u do, and i might have also seen ur car by their.. i dont really remember to well but my gf goes to SCU so i am over their alot...
their has to be more repuatable shops though maybe my sacramento or w.e that would maybe charge less 6-800 for the install! maybe someone else can chime in and say where they got their cams installed in the bay area... and how they did the tuning as well! thanks guys!
:SNSign:

Serper3 · May 3, 2007

hotmustang331 said:
Yep, just takes basic skills to do it. So if he knows how to work on BMWs and the such, he should have NO problem with a 2V.

And serper3, I think that even with ported heads you MAY only see a 10RWHP difference at best. Generally a cams/heads 2V will make 310+RWHP. To make bigger power N/A your best bet would be custom cams for your application...when you get the heads you want that is.
For now, all the cams that do not require a valve spring change will make about the same power. I have VT stg 1 cams and am still on the stock springs and the such...I also made a writeup on how to do it yourself. Its in the tech section and just search for "installing VT cams" .

I would recommend degreeing the cam in...but its not needed and safes ALOT of time. I didnt do it...along with MANY others...and as long as you dont skip a tooth on the cam gear there wont be any problems and it should run great.
Degreeing the cam in though will make a little more power and will allow you to be 100% sure that they are installed @ 0*s as the Ford cam gears can vary from the factory, and with larger cams can send your piston into a valve!....this will also require aftermarket adjustable cam gears BTW.

thanks alot! yea deffnly leaning more towards stage 1's i think if i go with stage 1's that will be an ok amount of power for now and i can also finish of my suspension as well by the time summer starts... if i am at like 290 whp i think i will be ok for roadcourse.. i did see ur write up and it was great, but it kinda whent over my head... it takes me forever to be able to picture and kinda "comprehend" the install since i never really have done anything like this before...
btw !! ur turbo setup is awesome!

MGD · May 3, 2007

For what it's worth I couldn't find ANY smog legal cams for modular engines on CARB site, technically making it NOT smog legal.

Serper3 · May 3, 2007

MGD said:
For what it's worth I couldn't find ANY smog legal cams for modular engines on CARB site, technically making it NOT smog legal.

yeaa..... i realize that... but first off, i just got smogged like in feb, second i can get smogged either way so i am not to worried...unless i get pulled over and sent to the ref... then i am really worried ..

TrueBlue03 · May 3, 2007

Serper3 said:
by all day long do u mean he has a shop and stuff? i actually talked to a guy today who has a good friend who has a shop and does some stuff like this.. the guy also has a blown fox body stang so i think it gives him more credibility... i should find out tmrw how much he will want for the install....
7-8+ hours of install time.. is that for stage 1 install without installing the valve springs?
thats funny that apex wanted to do it on ur car.. they said they dont work on modular engines and they sent me over to mustang ranch...
i think for 700 i would prolly just do it.. then it would be like 550 or so for the cams and about 400 for the tune from mph... thats like 1600 and that i can actually work with...
what kinda cams are u planning on getting though?
btw u go to SCU right? i think i read somewhere on here before that u do, and i might have also seen ur car by their.. i dont really remember to well but my gf goes to SCU so i am over their alot...
their has to be more repuatable shops though maybe my sacramento or w.e that would maybe charge less 6-800 for the install! maybe someone else can chime in and say where they got their cams installed in the bay area... and how they did the tuning as well! thanks guys!
:SNSign:

yep i go to SCU. i actually think i saw your car once a little while ago in the area. Im planning on VT stage 1s. If you really wanted to take the time, i heard VT will occasionally make custom grinds for customers with a desire for a certain cam.....but thats all more $$$$ money...

Im probably gonna go ahead and order the stage 1's and take them into the BMW guy. He has a small shop (blanking on the name at the moment) its a tiny shop with a few lifts and a really nice and friendly, but weird lookin' german guy who seems to know his stuff well. but anyways, he said he wanted to take a look at the cams and the motor once i get them, just to get a general feel for what he'll be workin with....and then he'd give me an estimate ....And if i do decide to have him do the install, i'll let you know the price and his quality of his work.

Am I getting played with? or is this really the case about cams?

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