ANSWER THIS: Tuned w/ chip ~vs~ Tweecer/wideband

OrangeMustangGt · Oct 16, 2004

what would you do? should i just bring it to a dyno and get it tuned with a chip, orr...throw down for a tewwcer, a wideband to decect air/fuel ratio and a laptop. hmm could get pricey. also, the car runs damn good, but i cant help but wonder to self:" is my A/F correct?"

final5-0 · Oct 16, 2004

I went the self tune route cause I wanted complete control of the tune.

When self tuning you can spend as much time as needed to reach your expectations. As you learn more about how the pcm works you also gain the ability to improve the tune more.

If self tuning you can change the tune without spending more money if you change the combo.

In the end, the laptop, wb, & tuner is just like any other tool you use to get the most from your car.

Later
Grady

dstanggt50 · Oct 16, 2004

I don't have the tweecer, but am leaning towards getting it. I like the idea of tuning your own car, and would be a great opportunity to learn. Just my opinion.

nmcgrawj · Oct 16, 2004

I also, am going the self tuning route. I was leaning towards the tweecer but after talking to Troy Chapman from stangtuning(he's on here too) convinced me to go with the PMS even though its a little bit more expensive.

Either way, tweecer or PMS, you cant lose. The wideband makes it even easier. But you could always just spend some bucks on a dyno session and look at the a/f ratio on there....

BlueOvalStangGT · Oct 16, 2004

The PMS unit doesnt require a lap top does it? And doesnt one of the tweecer models let you datalog so you dont need a laptop?Im too poor to own one of those foldable computers.

BlackVert · Oct 17, 2004

i have a tweecer. it is really cool, but there is a steep learning curve, and the documentation is not helpful. the folks on the forum (http://tweecer.oplnk.net/index.php) are very helpful tho. tuners typically take a cookie cutter approach, enter your maf, injectors, and cam specs, maybe add some timing and they burn that to the chip. with the tweecer, you have complete control over all the eec's parameters and you can update the tune as you change your configuration. you can also have up to 4 different tunes loaded at the same time, and switch between them at will.

can you tell i'm convinced that self tuning is right for me?

BlackVert · Oct 17, 2004

BlueOvalStangGT said:
The PMS unit doesnt require a lap top does it? And doesnt one of the tweecer models let you datalog so you dont need a laptop?Im too poor to own one of those foldable computers.

i don't know about the pms. but i do know it is much more expensive than the tweecer.

the tweecer r/t model is the one that lets you datalog, but you do need a laptop. there is no tweecer that datalogs without a laptop.

squall9393 · Oct 17, 2004

I want a TwEECer R/T. Seems good to go from what I've read about it.

moneypit94 · Oct 17, 2004

Really i think it depends on what you have and how often you mod your car... I ran a chip forever... Got almost the exact same results as my pms but i had to dyno it to make any changes at all, which was fine because i wouldn't have known what to change anyway.

Now I have my pms.. Pms you can datalog but you have to have a laptop and the aditional software for it. Far as user-friendly the PMS is by far the best. In my last 60 min dyno tune i learned how to adjust pretty much everything and do it effectively. And i had people that have never used a pms before showing me how to do it. Basically all tuners are the same but the pms is so much more user friendly.

But if your naturally asperated and don't look to mod it much more (which nobody does that, you always say im done after this and a month later your like I NEED THIS! ) then go with a chip.

final5-0 · Oct 17, 2004

BlueOvalStangGT said:
The PMS unit doesnt require a lap top does it? And doesnt one of the tweecer models let you datalog so you dont need a laptop?Im too poor to own one of those foldable computers.

The laptop does not need to to have the latest and greatest features.

The main thing you need is the usb port that the Tweecer interface uses.

I've seen some of the guys from the Tweecer sites say they use a laptop they picked up for one to two hunderd bucks.

A good battery or one of those dc power port adaptors is needed to datalog.

IMHO the basic Tweecer which will not datalog is a waste of time. You want the ability to see whats going on with the various sensors and what the pcm is doing. Another big plus for being able to datalog is you can use the egr pcm imput for your wide band output and your air to fuel ratio will be displayed in the datalog along with other data like spark, fuel pw, maf air flow, and such.

Later
Grady

jetuomi · Oct 17, 2004

Another vote for Tweecer RT, you can change EVERYTHING, and one thing I find with custom tuned chips is that they skimp on certain things in the 2 hour period.. Idle isn't perfected for all weather conditions / AC, etc.. Spark isn't optimized for part-throttle, etc...

All items you can tune yourself with Tweecer..

94TURBO5 O · Oct 17, 2004

BlueOvalStangGT said:
The PMS unit doesnt require a lap top does it? And doesnt one of the tweecer models let you datalog so you dont need a laptop?Im too poor to own one of those foldable computers.

You don't need a laptop with the O4 PMS but if you want to save data logging info you have to have one. Other than that it can be completely tuned by pushing a few buttons and you have realtime monitoring in your view. Here are a few screens that what it can do for you so you get the jist of it ..

Main Menu Options
(Each option has a table)

This is the Part Throttle table for fuel

This one is for timing

This is my Idle table

This is realtime moitoring of what I watch when driving

OrangeMustangGt · Oct 17, 2004

woah, nice how much is that kit, and am i correct that with eaither you need a wideband to really see whats going on?

SuperDust22 · Oct 17, 2004

Well once again if you get a tune now and burn a chip the when you get a S/C you will have to burn another one. Plus if you get a Tweecer you really need to know how to use it.

Dustin

final5-0 · Oct 17, 2004

GreenMustangGt said:
woah, nice how much is that kit, and am i correct that with eaither you need a wideband to really see whats going on?

With any self tune interface you can just use the sniffer wb when at the dyno. It goes without saying that the focus here would be WOT.

If you want to tune for and be able to datalog your a/f ratio under various conditions other than WOT then yes, you would need a wb.

A few things that might help you see what is possible with self tuning.

JFYI, the major focus of self tuning is about manipulating the values in the pcm's cal file for good drivability. When you start to get a basic grasp of how the pcm works you also start to see how you can use your tuning device to get back some of the drivability that has been lost due to all of those hot rod parts that now are on the car.

You really can regain most of your drivability if you will take the time to learn the basic operation of your pcm.

Using my car as an example:

I have a rock steady idle at 800 rpm. I can go down to 700 but the cam lopes too much.

On a level road I can cruise in fourth gear at 1200 rpm with no surging or bucking and pick up rpm & speed with no ill effects by just using the skinny pedal.

When at idle in the garage, just like a stocker, you don't get forced out due to the over rich smell.

BTW, I am using my original 95 GT pcm with a J4J1 cal file which basically means I'm using a 95 Cobra pcm.

Tuning for max power at WOT is cake compared to the first issue as it is nothing more than spark and fuel. Again, if you have a wb and the ability to datalog you can verify your a/f ratio.

Later
Grady

go-stang5.0 · Oct 18, 2004

How much does the pms cost?

nmcgrawj · Oct 18, 2004

about $850 or so.....here is a great comparison of the two by Troy from Stangtuning....

The PMS and TwEECer do have their advantages over one
another, and they work in different ways. The PMS is
simple to use, it modifies the signals going to and
from the EEC with an inline 60pin harness. Your just
modifying what the EEC sees and what it is sending
out. The TwEECer you actually change the tables in
the EEC. The TwEECer you can upload many calibrations
at once. The PMS you just modify the tables in the
PMS. The PMS has Idle tables, 8 part throttle areas
(from low load to high load), WOT tables. This, to
me, is much more simple than changing different
functions, scalers, and tables in the TwEECer...plus
you need to know what those tables and functions do.
With the PMS you just add/subtract fuel or
timing...very simple and effective.
Things the PMS can do that the TwEECer can't...the PMS
has boost tables and nitrous tables. Using a MAP
sensor or wiring the nitrous solenoid wire to the PMS,
and when it sense boost (or nitrous) it will revert to
your nitrous/boost tables. With the TwEECer you have
to design a program for boost or nitrous, and then
swap to it. The PMS can also turn things
on/off...like water injection or nitrous. I'll be
using the PMS to act as a window switch for my nitrous
kit. I'll have the nitrous turn on at 4,000rpms and
turnoff at 6700rpms...you input a TPS percentage and
RPM as on/off points. The PMS also has a built in
Two-Step rev limiter...really nice for 5spd cars. The
best feature is Standalone. When standalone is used
the PMS bypasses the EEC, locks the timing at 25
degrees total and shoots for 12:1 a/f. You then add
in your timing/fuel into the WOT tables. The EEC is
not really consistent on timing as compared to the
PMS.
Things the TwEECer can do that the PMS can't are turn
off sensors like EGR and smog pump, to help with Check
Engine Light...you can tell it where your O2 are
located. The PMS does not access all the scalars in
the EEC like the TwEECer can do.
The TwEECer is lower priced but requires a laptop.
The PMS does not require a laptop, but if you want the
optional software to have more tuning options and
datalogging then you need a laptop. You will see more
racers with a PMS and more street cars with a TwEECer.
Also on telling the EEC where the O2s are...I don't
have my O2s plugged in. I leave them unplugged, let
the EEC havee a default voltage, and then the EEC
can't learn around changes and I just use my wideband
to tune all areas.
Bottom line is they both work, and work well. Both
have good support. For me the PMS was more simple and
easy to use and does everything I need it to do. If
you have any more questions feel free to ask.

ANSWER THIS: Tuned w/ chip ~vs~ Tweecer/wideband

OrangeMustangGt

final5-0

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dstanggt50

nmcgrawj

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BlueOvalStangGT

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BlackVert

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squall9393

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moneypit94

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final5-0

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jetuomi

94TURBO5 O

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OrangeMustangGt

SuperDust22

The Power of Pixie Dust?!

final5-0

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go-stang5.0

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