Anyone here run E85?

[bhuff30]

Anyone here running their 4.6 on E85? What is your setup and how do you like it? I love E85 setups and it would be soooo easy to make rediculous power on the 4.6 with corn juice.

I've been running my 2.3 on E85 for a couple of years with good success... well, if you define success by cracking the block, but I'm considering changing the combination a bit.

It seems to have plenty of octane, as if I'm just barely scratching the surface. I'm running a bit less than 8:1 compression, 24 psi and a small shot of juice to get everything moving. I'm thinking about upping the compression to around 9.5-10:1 and was wondering if anyone else has experience with E85 and the real world knock limit. Sure, it has an octane rating of 105, but in the real world it has a much higher knock limit because it will get you drunk... errr is alcohol.

 

[Mustang92]

I'm not running it yet but it will be in my near future. There are a handful of people around here running the set up and I suspect there would be even more if it was more readily available. As it is the nearest locations to buy it are 20-30 miles north or south of west palm.

I don't know anyone that has pushed the limits of it to see where it begins to knock in comparison to race fuel. One of my friends has made over 1000RWHP with 30psi in a Shelby running E85 with no problems. Best part is IAT2 readings stay consistent at 114* after repeated dyno pulls. It's really the best of both worlds higher octane and the cooling effect of meth injection in one.

Bill

 

[bboylobo]

e85 in a stang? i didnt know that was possible. are there any good write ups for this?

 

[Stark77]

5.0 magazine did one this month on a bone stock Mach1 - gained about 20 HP and 40 rwtq.

 

[bhuff30]

I'll have to look for that mach 1 article.

Converting to E85 can be as simple or difficult as you make it. On the simple side, I just installed a larger fuel pump and correspondingly bigger injectors in my 88 mustang. No tuning, nothing. I just reply on the 33% larger injectors to compensate for needing 33% more fuel. Then, added more boost to take advantage of it. The O2 sensor and long and short fuel trims take care of the rest.

The best way would be to have a tuner. You'd also want larger injectors to ensure sufficient flow and probably a bigger fuel pump. On the tuning side, there will be a fuel multiplier that you need to adjust. You just adjust this one value and it changes all the fuel values. And of course, more timing. That mach 1 article, they probably just adjusted the timing to make that 20hp gain. To really make use of E85, you want more compression and/or more boost. Somewhere along 12:1 to 13:1 should be fine with E85! It has an amazing cooling effect which helps more than just looking at the octane number.

I found a neat corvette article where they switched a new C6 to E85 and make similar gains to that mach 1. Again, all they did was add bigger injectors, a larger fuel pump, change the fuel multiplier, and added timing. That engine has pretty high compression to start with and gained more because it pulls timing out when it senses knock on 93/91 octane. http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_0801_corvette_e85_conversion/index.html

 

[cusp]

There most likely would have to be a C.A.R.B. approved kit for Mustangs registered in California. But aside from that, I only know of 1 station selling E85 in town. Its harder to find than Desel. One would really have to preplan their cross country trips around the availability of E85. Seems like a pain to me.

 

[bhuff30]

For cross country trips, it would be very easy to reprogram to run regular gas. Just that single fuel multiplier and fill up with premium. I've run up to 30% ethanol in my 97 GT. The long term fuel trims took care of everything, and even at WOT, the AFs were perfect.

 

[98COBRA281]

there is one station a few miles from my house that has it, but it on the turnpike, so i would have to jump on the highway and fill the tank full!

i might look into it a little more, i have bigger injector and fuel pump, would i just need a retune?

 

[Stark77]

They tested a predator 93 octane tune, stock tune, and the E85 tune - city mileage, highway mileage, dyno(hp and torque numbers).

 

[04sleeper]

I am running E85 in my 04 Cobra. I am @ 20 psi and currently running 23* timing and it loves it!

Car picked up around 100 RWHP and 100 RWTQ over 93.

E85 IS the answer for high HP street cars!

 

[98COBRA281]

E85 IS the answer for high HP street cars!

does it work well on N/A cars?, ive been thinking about it, but dont know if its worth it.......

 

[bhuff30]

When did you switch over to E85? Is that a new development?

I am running E85 in my 04 Cobra. I am @ 20 psi and currently running 23* timing and it loves it!

Car picked up around 100 RWHP and 100 RWTQ over 93.

E85 IS the answer for high HP street cars!

Yeah, it'll still be great on an NA car, but you'll wish you built it for 13:1 instead of only 11:1. Just like the mach 1, you'll be able to pick up the timing a bit. The E85 will also have a nice cooling and it is oxygenated for a small gain too.

does it work well on N/A cars?, ive been thinking about it, but dont know if its worth it.......

 

[98COBRA281]

if it picks up 20ish rwhp i will deffently do it , but i just want to make sure it will be worth it.......

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

For cross country trips, it would be very easy to reprogram to run regular gas. Just that single fuel multiplier and fill up with premium. I've run up to 30% ethanol in my 97 GT. The long term fuel trims took care of everything, and even at WOT, the AFs were perfect.

did you notice anything different with the car afterwards? i have a pump right down the road, and everybody has been mixing thier ****, but they have das boowst.. i still have 19's and stock pump, but what would happen if say i mixed it 20/80? any hp inprovement would be titties!!! really if it dosent have a sotp feel to it i dont even bother..

 

[04sleeper]

does it work well on N/A cars?, ive been thinking about it, but dont know if its worth it.......

Obviously it will gain more on boosted cars, but it really depends on your specific engine I suppose. Higher compression engines will benefit more than lower.

When did you switch over to E85? Is that a new development?

I switched about 3 months or so ago. A friend of mine in Florida showed some great results and I was looking for a better alternative than race gas or octane boosters such as Torco. I am not a big fan of what Torco does to your engine nor was I wanting to spend big $$$ per gallon on race gas. I built my car for street duty and car shows. But I always like getting the most out of my combo.

I also don't like the inconsistencies in 93 Octane pump gas and always trying to stay right at the limit of detonation as far as boost and timing.

So I did some research and changed over. There were no cars around me running E85 so I was the guinea pig If you will. After I retuned my car and a few other local friends saw what timing and boost I was able to run, they switched over as well.

A good friend of mine who has an 04 Cobra almost identical to my set up was the first of my friends to switch over. He was currently running Sunoco GT 260 (100 Octane) race gas because a station about 30 minutes North of him had it at he pump for $5.99 per gallon. He was hessitant to switch because his car was already making good power and he figured why mess up a good thing. After he switched, he was kicking himself for not switching sooner as was I.

Here is his combo which is basically the same as mine.

STOCK block, stock heads, stock cams, stock manifolds, catted X
2.3 whipple gen 2 @ 21-22 psi 2.75 upper only (just a little whipple), NGK Br7efs gapped@ .026
Twin GT pumps, GT 500 BAP, dual FPDMs, stock rails, -8 feed, 80 ln inj
24 degrees timing (yes it continues to gain more beyond 23 degrees)
A/F ratio pre-cats 10.9 - 11.3 (On a Gasoline Scale Wideband)

Here is his STD Dyno Sheet after E85.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64515&d=1254531169

Here is his SAE Dyno Sheet after E85.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64514&d=1254531169

Here is his comparison between 100 Octane Sunoco GT 260 and E85.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=64516&d=1254531169

In the midrange he picked up more than 100 RWHP nd RWTQ.

Not bad for a stock Cobra with a upper only pulley small 2.3 Whipple!

Since his dyno we cleaned up his A/F a little more and hedecided to take 1 degree of timing out. It should be the same power wise with those adjustments.

I haven't had a chance to dyno my car yet because of my clutch but I plan to as soon as I put a new one in. Our cars have always performed basically the same with the mods and we are both running the same set ups.

Hope this helps a little.

Needless to say I am VERY HAPPY I made the switch and I'm sure more people will switch once they realize the benefits.

 

[04sleeper]

did you notice anything different with the car afterwards? i have a pump right down the road, and everybody has been mixing thier ****, but they have das boowst.. i still have 19's and stock pump, but what would happen if say i mixed it 20/80? any hp inprovement would be titties!!! really if it dosent have a sotp feel to it i dont even bother..

In order to gain an improvement in HP, the tune has to be adjusted accordingly. If not, it will only make your car run leaner.

93 Octane now at most pumps is E10. Having 10% Ethanol. What most people don't realize is that E10 has a lower Stoich Value than 100% Gasoline. E10 has a Stoich Value of 14.1 A/F. 100% Gasoline is around 14.64 A/F.

E85 for example has a Stoich Value of 9.76 A/F and 100% Ethanol is 9.0 A/F.

This is why it reqires more fue and hence a retune.

E85 is esentially 85% Ethanol and 15% 87 Octane gasoline. E85's Octane rating is around 105. Not bad considering is cost less than 87!

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

well i went and put about a 30% mix in tonight, just to see what it would do. runs a little smoother, but before hard on the gas in 5th it would bog and then move, now it just moves, so definately smoother, ill put the programmer on it this weekend, and crank some timing on it and up the fuel 25% or so, car is pretty much stock so im not gonna max out the injectors just yet lol.. hopefully i can run a pretty wikd timing table..

 

[bhuff30]

Mr. Rusty:

Just like stated, E85 won't help unless you tune for it. Picking up the timing will help, but only similar to running 91/93 octane and having a tune for it. These engines are still designed for pump gas, so the nicest gains will be seen by feeding them 20psi of boost or building a compression ratio that makes pump gas cry.

You asked about when I was running E30... there was a station near me that sold already blended E30 for a little cheaper than you could get plain 87, so I ran it. I agree, it seemed slightly smoother, but I never noticed a power gain. However, since I got the car, it always had detonation on 87 octane in the summer at full load in 3rd and 4th gear, above 3000rpm. I never understood why because it was bone stock. Of course, running E30, the detonation went away because of the octane, but the really great thing is, after I moved and had to start running 87 octane again, the detonation never came back! I suspect I had a partially clogged fuel injector causing a lean condition in one cylinder and the extra ethanol cleaned it up. Ethanol will definately clean up your fuel system.

But yeah, I put the wideband on while running the E30 mixes and the lamda's were exactly the same as pump gas. If you are pretty well modified, and pushing the limits of the stock fuel pump or injectors, then you may want to keep an eye on those while running E30 mixtures. Otherwise, no problem at all. The computer has the room for adjustment in that range. I never did try ratios higher than 30% because the 30% was the highest pre-mix without going to E85.

 

[bhuff30]

04Sleeper: You and your freind only increased the timing after switching to E85, or did you up the boost too? You are making great power, but I bet you could still up the boost if you have enough fuel capacity to feed it. I ran 25psi, but only because the turbo was useless and out of breath above that.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

Mr. Rusty:

Just like stated, E85 won't help unless you tune for it. Picking up the timing will help, but only similar to running 91/93 octane and having a tune for it. These engines are still designed for pump gas, so the nicest gains will be seen by feeding them 20psi of boost or building a compression ratio that makes pump gas cry.

You asked about when I was running E30... there was a station near me that sold already blended E30 for a little cheaper than you could get plain 87, so I ran it. I agree, it seemed slightly smoother, but I never noticed a power gain. However, since I got the car, it always had detonation on 87 octane in the summer at full load in 3rd and 4th gear, above 3000rpm. I never understood why because it was bone stock. Of course, running E30, the detonation went away because of the octane, but the really great thing is, after I moved and had to start running 87 octane again, the detonation never came back! I suspect I had a partially clogged fuel injector causing a lean condition in one cylinder and the extra ethanol cleaned it up. Ethanol will definately clean up your fuel system.

But yeah, I put the wideband on while running the E30 mixes and the lamda's were exactly the same as pump gas. If you are pretty well modified, and pushing the limits of the stock fuel pump or injectors, then you may want to keep an eye on those while running E30 mixtures. Otherwise, no problem at all. The computer has the room for adjustment in that range. I never did try ratios higher than 30% because the 30% was the highest pre-mix without going to E85.

yeah thats primarily why i did it, to just see if it would run a little smoother, i think now, if e85 takes 33%more fuel, a 30% mix would make me have to run about 10-11% more fuel? im just gonna try it with a crazy timing table and see how it likes it. basically poor mans cam2 lol i wish this crap would have been out when i had my svo.. lol 25psi and 15# timing would have been really fun..