Engine Anyone Here Running Frpp "boss" Head Gasket M-6051-cp331 In A Production 5.0l?

[Gearbanger 101]

Having an issue determining if these are going to work or not? I bought it through Summit last fall, where in their description it stated it fit all production 302/351w blocks from 1968-2001.

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6051-cp331/overview/

Gaskets went on just fine, heads are torqued on (GT40X) and then just for giggles I decided to Google the part number......

One of the sources I found Fordracingpartsdirect.com (absolutely brutal, rude customer service BTW.....will never buy from them, nor will I recommend anyone else to either) shows in their description that it's designed to fit the FRPP Boss blocks and not the production 302 and that it will not work with the production block???

Seems I stumped the guy at Summit when I asked him which description was correct and the guy at fordracingpartsdirect couldn't even be bothered to have the conversation.

So.....basically from what I've gathered from my reasearch is that you can't run the stock style 302 gaskets on a Boss block because of the additional lower cooling holes in the block. Doing so will result in severe coolant leakage from the rear of the engine. This much was clear to me.....but my question now, is can you run the FRPP Boss style gasket on a production block? Only one of the upper cooling holes exists (left hand side) on the production block and neither of them exist on the bottom, so I can't see it being an issue, but I don't know for sure? Another note of concern for me is the differences in routing of the "print-o-seal" type o-ring design between the two gaskets?

Has anyone else got an answer? I planned on buttoning of the top end of the engine tomorrow, but it looks like I'm at a standstill for now if I'm just going to have to rip it all apart again just to change a gaskets?

Pics to illustrate my point....

Standard Fel-Pro 1011-1 302 Head gasket

Standard 302 block

M-6051-CP331 Head Gasket Note the additional coolant (steam?) holes at the bottom of the gasket....shown at the top of the gasket in the picture.



FRPP "Boss" block

Note the additional coolant passages. One upper right, and two at the lower portion of the block compared to the production 302? In the FRPP catalogue, their only footnote states...

Pre-flattened copper wire combustion ring. Exhaust side is straight to accommodate FRPP block water passages.

Doesn't really tell you much?


View attachment 115149

 

[Gearbanger 101]

All the smart guys must be out driving their cars this weekend?

 

[jAEded]

I have a set and I can't remember if I ran them or not. Stock 302 with alum heads.

The only difference that I saw is the exhaust side of each cylinder bank is thicker on a stock block over the boss. If you compare them the regular head gasket has more material sticking out on the exhaust side than the boss. Otherwise I think they're the same. The head bolt holes are larger for the 1/2" holes over the 7/16" on the boss.

I ended up with the regular fel-pro graphites. I think my logic at the time was I would rather blow the head gasket than my block.

 

[Noobz347]

[USERGROUP=77]@SN Certified Technician[/USERGROUP]

 

[jAEded]

the easiest thing to do would be to lay the boss gasket over a stock 302 gasket and see the difference.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

the easiest thing to do would be to lay the boss gasket over a stock 302 gasket and see the difference.

Would have loved to have done that if it weren't for the fact that I've got a 25lb cylinder head between them at this point.


In any case, I called FRPP Tech Line yesterday afternoon and it turns out they're a no go.

He didn't get overly specific, but stated that the coolant passages were routed differently and that he "would not recommend" using them on a stock block. I ended up ordering a set of Felpro 1011-2's locally this afternoon instead.

Now I've got to not only pull the heads off again, but convince Summit Racing to give me my money back for them. When I spoke to their service rep, they stated as long as they weren't used, they take them back. When I explained that they were used, but only because they advertised them as working on all 302/351W from '68-'01 she of course didn't have an answer for me.

She then told me to send them back and they would inspect them for defects!?!?!

I again told here there was nothing wrong with the gasket. The only defective part was the way they were advertised. She then said to just send them back with an explanation note attached and someone would contact me.

I'm gonna be super pissed if not only they deny me a full refund, but I've now had to pay an additional $20 shipping to send a set of gaskets back, than are only going to be thrown away, on top of it all!!!

 

[Noobz347]

Would have loved to have done that if it weren't for the fact that I've got a 25lb cylinder head between them at this point.

That's what was thinkin'.

Damned scary if you ask me.


I would not think that those holes would make much of a difference but I've been wrong about that sort of thing before.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

That's what was thinkin'.

Damned scary if you ask me.


I would not think that those holes would make much of a difference but I've been wrong about that sort of thing before.

I didn't think so either.....but it's too much work to risk having to replace them again on a hunch.

I've only gone as far as installing the heads at this point. I figured I'm going to have to jump through enough hoops to get them to refund me the price of the head gaskets alone....I can imagine what there answer would be if I told them I wanted a refund for not only the head gaskets, but my now ruined intake gaskets, tube of "The Right Stuff" sealant and all of the cleaning supplies involved in having to reprep the parts for assembly after I've buttoned it all up?

 

[Noobz347]

I didn't think so either.....but it's too much work to risk having to replace them again on a hunch.

I've only gone as far as installing the heads at this point. I figured I'm going to have to jump through enough hoops to get them to refund me the price of the head gaskets alone....I can imagine what there answer would be if I told them I wanted a refund for not only the head gaskets, but my now ruined intake gaskets, tube of "The Right Stuff" sealant and all of the cleaning supplies involved in having to reprep the parts for assembly after I've buttoned it all up?

Screw it. If you installed head studs (which I would assume that you would) and you have a quality gasket installed, it'll probably last 100K miles.

 

[jAEded]

I bought them for the same reason from summit. I thought they would work based on the advertising.

I do specifically remember the Boss gasket is much thinner on the exhaust side than the regular gasket. It did run though until my fan failed and the car overheated 30 miles from home. After that I went with the 9333-pt1s.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

I bought them for the same reason from summit. I thought they would work based on the advertising.

I do specifically remember the Boss gasket is much thinner on the exhaust side than the regular gasket. It did run though until my fan failed and the car overheated 30 miles from home. After that I went with the 9333-pt1s.

For how long were you using them before the overheating issue took them out?

And are we 100% certain it was the fan failure that caused the overheating issue, or was it a problem with coolant routing?

Screw it. If you installed head studs (which I would assume that you would) and you have a quality gasket installed, it'll probably last 100K miles.

No studs, ARP head bolts. The quality of the gasket isn't what concerns me....it's the compatibility with my set up. Take a look at the pics I posted above.....particularly around the "print-o-seal" routing around the top coolant passages (intake side of the gasket). The stock block gasket has these passages isolated from the rest of the surface area....where the CP331 gasket does not. That is what's making me second guess.

I wish I knew for sure if the Ford Tech I spoke to knew for certain running these gaskets would be an issues, or if he's just reciting rhetoric from the FRPP manual of "better safe, than sorry" to cover his bases?

 

[jAEded]

The honest answer is I'm not sure.

Its a long story in a condensed version... I just did the alum heads, electric fan & new intake, stock cam was 2 degrees advanced (I was curious).
Drove a good distance sitting at a light felt a pop and didn't run good after that. Oil was a chocolate milkshake. Let the car sit for 2 years. Finally got my s**t together and fixed everything and thats when I noticed the fan controller was bad. I almost overheated it again. I used the 9333 after the first time. I wasn't sure if that was the issue at the time I put it back together.

When I laid the boss gasket on my 302 block I noticed sections of metal the gasket didn't cover on the exhaust side. The 9333 pt1 on the exhaust side of the gasket its more rounded and sticking out towards the headers from hole to hole. The boss gasket basically cuts in a straight, slightly diagonal, line from one hole to the other on the same side.

 

[jAEded]

And I just discovered I lied to you. I used m-6051-c51, not cp331. And I used 8548pt2 not 9333pt1. And I bought it from the same website, with a equally poor description of what the gasket is actually for. I opened my mouth before I had the info in front of me. My apologies.

I'm dyslexic today.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Well dandy. New development today. Decided to give the Ford Tech Hotline another try to see if I could get some more insight on why the gasket wouldn't work and got another guy.....who says that the gaskets will work fine!?! At least they're consistent?

 

[Noobz347]

Well dandy. New development today. Decided to give the Ford Tech Hotline another try to see if I could get some more insight on why the gasket wouldn't work and got another guy.....who says that the gaskets will work fine!?! At least they're consistent?

LOL... You should start a thread.

Oh wait...

 

[Bullitt347]

Standard 302 block

M-6051-CP331 Head Gasket Note the additional coolant (steam?) holes at the bottom of the gasket....shown at the top of the gasket in the picture.



FRPP "Boss" block

Note the additional coolant passages. One upper right, and two at the lower portion of the block compared to the production 302? In the FRPP catalogue, their only footnote states...



Doesn't really tell you much?


View attachment 115013

Your picture of the "standard" 302 block is actually a picture of a Dart block. The stock block was nowhere near that beefy, let alone have the 4 bolt mains (center 3). The size of the front maincap is a dead giveaway, let alone the extra material around the lifter bores and the extra material around the cylinder bores. A stock 302 block would be straight along the outside edge of the block where the cylinder heads bolt on, same with the top side by the lifter valley. Anywho........Either gasket shown will work with either of the engine blocks shown. Would have to see the gasket on a "stock" 302 block first tho to see if the gasket would work. My guess is no.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Sorry....I posted the links from my phone. I must have copied the wrong one.

This is a stock 302 block

In any case, the coolant passages seem to be the same between the stock block and the dart block. Only the Boss block has a different configuration.