AOD vs Manual

SFC_R0CK · Jan 21, 2009

Does anyone know about how much HP and TQ is lost when running a stock AOD and converter verus running a manual trans?

Thanks

DeVus1 · Jan 21, 2009

Should be something close to:

15% for manuals
20% for automatics

Mustang5L5 · Jan 21, 2009

ABout what he said give or take

85_SS_302_Coupe · Jan 21, 2009

Personally, not enough difference in loss to make that a big part of making your decision. Think about what you like to drive more, and what your goals are with the car. I prefer sticks, but it's pretty common that autos are more consistant and typically faster unless you really know how to shift. Plus autos are a lot easier on your drivetrain, which can be a plus if you build huge power. You also don't have to worry about missing gears with an auto. That said, i think driving a stick is more fun and i appreciate a fast stick car more than a fast auto car, because it shows more driver skill than the auto car does.

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 21, 2009

Keep in mind....the higher the horsepower level, the closer the two are drivetrain loss wise. At 300hp they might dyno within 5% of one and other, but at 600hp they'll dyno closer to 1-3% of each other.

ryan218 · Jan 21, 2009

ive heard in stock from a aod can suck up to as much as 30% drivetrain loss?

SFC_R0CK · Jan 21, 2009

The reason I am asking is I had my 89 Notch run on a dyno trailer last Sat and this is what is did but the numbers just do not seem right to me and it was the first time I ever had a car on a dyno. Also what is the best way to shift an AOD on a dyno. Thanks

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 21, 2009

It's a little low, but probably not by a lot. Stock automatice equipped Fox bodies dyno about 185-195rwhp. I would guess you should be putting down somewhere in the 215-220rwhp range. You've got some decent breathing mods there, but trying to choke all of them through the stock E7TE heads is what's killing you. You'd probably pick up an easy 40-50rwhp at this point going to a set of one of the more popular aluminum castings.

What kind of dnyo they used? Dynojets and Mustang dyno's will differ....sometimes by quite a bit. The Mustang Dyno will usually register the lower of the two.

foxmustangman · Jan 22, 2009

Your 'vert has almost all the same exact mods as mine. And that seems about right for a stock fox. prepping it before the dyno may have helped your numbers (oil change, seafoam, fuel injector cleaner, etc.)

i've always heard that automatics run at approx 95% the speed of the engine while driving. correct me if i'm wrong

wythors · Jan 22, 2009

I did a before and after on my car when I did the AOD/T-5 swap. You can see the other mods in my sig. No other changes were made to the car between runs.

AOD = 257 rwhp 285 rwt

T-5 = 276 rwhp 315 rwt

Both runs were made on the same Dynojet under very similar atmospheric conditions.

BKiller · Jan 22, 2009

I have really been on the fence about switching my AOD to a T-5 before I start my motor mods. Seems like I could do a full manual valve body and a nice converter for way less than a t-5 swap? Just hope I would be happy after I did that!

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 22, 2009

BKiller said:
I have really been on the fence about switching my AOD to a T-5 before I start my motor mods. Seems like I could do a full manual valve body and a nice converter for way less than a t-5 swap? Just hope I would be happy after I did that!

Just don't be afraid of converter stall speed and you'll be happy. IMO, anything less than 3,400 for your average bolt on 5.0L is a waste of time.

SVT32VDOHC · Jan 22, 2009

I HATED my AOD in my 91. I hated the other AOD cars I rode in. Before all you auto guys flame me, these were stock AOD's and AOD's with shift kits. They can be built, but stock, they are boat anchors.

25thmustang · Jan 22, 2009

wythors said:
I did a before and after on my car when I did the AOD/T-5 swap. You can see the other mods in my sig. No other changes were made to the car between runs.

AOD = 257 rwhp 285 rwt

T-5 = 276 rwhp 315 rwt

Both runs were made on the same Dynojet under very similar atmospheric conditions.

Interesting note here about my car in comparison...

I had the same motor combo I have now. The only power difference was mac prochamber and mac catback and made:
272/316

The motor in there now with an Xpipe, and dumped spintechs made:
258/195

Almost similar power numbers to yours, and my tranny wasnt changed. I did a 5lug swap, but not sure how that affected power.

NIKwoaC · Jan 22, 2009

Gearbanger 101 said:
Keep in mind....the higher the horsepower level, the closer the two are drivetrain loss wise. At 300hp they might dyno within 5% of one and other, but at 600hp they'll dyno closer to 1-3% of each other.

Can you elaborate? I've never head that before, and I'd like to know more.

foxmustangman said:
Your 'vert has almost all the same exact mods as mine. And that seems about right for a stock fox. prepping it before the dyno may have helped your numbers (oil change, seafoam, fuel injector cleaner, etc.)

i've always heard that automatics run at approx 95% the speed of the engine while driving. correct me if i'm wrong

Traditional style torque converters, by definition, can never output the same shaft speeds as what is input, because the fluid coupling results in some inefficiencies in the converter that allow for a reduction in shaft speed (and power). That said, some newer transmissions have "lock up" converters that mechanically couple at cruise and output spin at 100% of input speed, this is why new cars with AT can get just as good highway gas mileage as the same car with a MT.

SVT32VDOHC said:
I HATED my AOD in my 91. I hated the other AOD cars I rode in. Before all you auto guys flame me, these were stock AOD's and AOD's with shift kits. They can be built, but stock, they are boat anchors.

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Factory AOD cars are turds and IIRC, are a full second slower in the 1/4. I've driven a few, and the car just feels completely different than what a T5 Fox car does.

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 22, 2009

NikwoaC said:
Can you elaborate? I've never head that before, and I'd like to know more.

Man, if I can remember my math correctly.....

Horsepower is a measure of work over time. The more you increase said horsepower, the shorter time it will take you to perform as specific amount of work (reach horsepower goal) or the more work you will be able to do in a specific allotment of time.

In simplest terms,

If you’re running your car with 300hp, to 6,000RPM it takes X amount of time (say 10-seconds).

If you’re running that same car with 600hp, to 6,000RPM it cuts that time dramatically (say in half). The higher horsepower overcomes a good portion of the drive train loss.

Because both engines are spinning up to 6,000RPM just because you’re eating up 60hp (20%) through the drivetrain at 300hp, it doesn’t automatically mean you’ll eat up 120hp (20%) through the drivetrain at 600hp. And because they’re spinning to the same RPM, the drivetrain loss between an auto and a standard as well as their proportion to one and other decreases as over all power increases.

I wish I had more time to sit down and formulate a better explanation, but I gotta jet to work for a couple of hours.

SFC_R0CK · Jan 22, 2009

I think it was a dynojet and it was trailer mounted.

68stang351 · Jan 22, 2009

All I know for sure is that when I took the AOD out of my 90 and put a T5 in it, it was quite a noticeable difference.

Almost felt like a different car.

AOD vs Manual

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