At what price would you buy a Terminator?

mattkimsey · Oct 22, 2005

Low-5.0 said:
You sound kinda like me about a year ago, except that I try not to be an ass. Why buy an 03 Cobra when you can build a 95 that is faster for less money? I've got about $22-25K in my car right now, including the cost of the car, paint, rims, everything. And I still need about another $6-10K to finish it the way I want it.

Paint and rims are basic maintnance items on a car 10yrs. old. I really don't know what you spent your money on, but I would like to see a general list excluding visual mods ie. paint, wheels, hood, etc.

I'm also guessing that you have done these modifications over an extended period of time, without the stresses of a car payment, higher insurance, and higher taxes. This boys and girls, is what draws people to 5.0's. You can buy a cheap one for 3-4k and slowly modify it while having a reliable car. Some may start out with the basic TB, MAF, exhaust, subframe, gear....and add to it as money alllows. This can't be done with the car payment of a 27k car.

Black95GTS · Oct 22, 2005

mattkimsey said:
I was talking about putting a car into the low 10's when you quoted me and made your comments. You went on to say this So it was only right to compare....apples to apples 10sec Cobra vs. 10 sec 5.0. Thats great....you bought a car with mods already done....many people do it!

YOU may not care, but the people wanting to buy one do! No, actually we all have 27k to throw around without giving the slightest worry to payments/insurance/taxes.....riiiiiiighht.

Biggest interest tuff guy line ever! Way to flex your E-penis!! Your car runs 11.6, obviously you possess a cornucopia of a automotive knowledge only rivaled by those who run 11.5.

Maybe it is best that you bought factory performance No, if I were YOU, I wouldn't do that!

Before you go ahead and tell Jesse he doesn't know his stuff, do a search and read about the guy's projects... gt40 motor swap, nitrous setup, ptk turbo kit, 351 stroked to a 418, '03 Cobra... all at the age of 22 (or are you still 21?).

Until you build this budget 1320 monster you keep talking about, I suggest you stop quoting advertised figures from the Jeg's catalogue and put this time into your project. I know my car is a glorified grocery getter, which is why you won't see me telling guys with mid 11 second time slips they spent too much money while I proudly wave my mid 14 second slip in their face.

:Track:

mattkimsey · Oct 22, 2005

Joes95GT said:
Dude...

OK here we go

Joes95GT said:
You don't compare money invested in a car to see how fast you go. "Well I went 10's with X-amount, and you went 10's with Y-amount. I'm better because I spent less." Get a life.

Are you imagining things? No one ever said "I'm better because I went faster with less money" I made a comment about how I could reach my goal of running 10's for less money and without the extra headache of having a 5yr. payment with added interest in which I would end up paying 35+k for a car. I also said that I can avoid full coverage insurance which saves me 1k per year. I also said that the taxes are lower $30 for my 5.0...probably $400+ on a 27k car. These are the things I said, so, step back from your computer, relax and stop trying to read between the lines

Joes95GT said:
If money means that much, get a second/third/fourth/nine-thousandth job.

That sound very responsible...give up having a life so you can spend 40k on a play toy(car)...you have some learning to do!

Joes95GT said:
You also discuss the ever so famous "easier to work on"-arguement of the pushrod versus SOHC/DOHC.If anyone finds it more difficult to work on a DOHC motor, they should be touching it. Why so many people make such a big deal about working on those things is beyond me.

This is an opinion based statement. In general, most will agree with me, but of course that doesn't make it fact.

Joes95GT said:
Also, you need to get your head out of the magazines and get into the real world.

Yeah, I'll do that.

Joes95GT said:
You criticize someone who has "factory performance" yet you are putting together a motor combination that should make MORE power than the Cobra.

I'm sorry, but you sound crazy at this point, where did I criticize someone for buying factory performance? I said what was cheaper and the better option for me.

Joes95GT said:
First, you're putting a forged crank into a block that will break before the crank...that's a good start .

Now I'm starting to think you have me confused with someone else. I don't know how much experience you have with the mexican block, but several local guys are running 9's with mexican based motors. Here is a great thread made by Barry on turbo mustangs http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php? read carefully and report back.

Joes95GT said:
Second, you're putting a YS trim on a 347. With good heads, you'll make enough power to see the block split before the 1-2 shift.

Is that right? learn somethin new everyday

Joes95GT said:
Have a NICE day.

Same to you! (this is gettin' fun)

mattkimsey · Oct 22, 2005

Black95GTS said:
Until you build this budget 1320 monster you keep talking about, I suggest you stop quoting advertised figures from the Jeg's catalogue and put this time into your project. I know my car is a glorified grocery getter, which is why you won't see me telling guys with mid 11 second time slips they spent too much money while I proudly wave my mid 14 second slip in their face.

:Track:

Isn't great how these threads turn into personal attacks which are based on little evidence? Stick to the topic at hand and away from comments directed toward people. It makes you look bad, and is a sure sign of debate which is lost.

Caldwell · Oct 22, 2005

the debate is lost.

Joes95GT · Oct 22, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Now I'm starting to think you have me confused with someone else. I don't know how much experience you have with the mexican block, but several local guys are running 9's with mexican based motors. Here is a great thread made by Barry on turbo mustangs http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php? read carefully and report back.

The link didn't work...no big deal. You obviously haven't realized that there are many, many people over at TM who push the limits of everything. Just because three people, and a few at TM run big numbers with a mexican block doesn't make it strong. In fact, those running into the 9's WITH A MEXICAN BLOCK are running on borrowed time.

Think about it...if people are trying to make serious smoke and go with a Dart block, why don't they just buy a mexican block to get into the 9's? It's not because there aren't many mexican blocks around, either...

Another question...

Your combination was a mexican block 347 with nitrous or a YS-trim. Why are you citing these turbo "facts" to support a supercharged/nitrous arguement? You do know that turbo motors make much MORE power than a supercharged motor with much LESS stress on the crank. Stress at the mains, particularly at the thrust (where most of the stress is on a blower car) KILLS motors.

Happy Saturday y'all! Time to go party! :SNSign: :Word:

Joe

Joes95GT · Oct 22, 2005

Caldwell said:
the debate is lost.

Caldwell, you're right dude.

"Blah blah blah, yada yada yada, scooby-****ing-dooby."

Joe

mattkimsey · Oct 22, 2005

Joes95GT said:
The link didn't work...no big deal.

Lets try again http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23254&highlight=mexican+block

Joes95GT said:
You obviously haven't realized that there are many, many people over at TM who push the limits of everything. Just because three people, and a few at TM run big numbers with a mexican block doesn't make it strong. In fact, those running into the 9's WITH A MEXICAN BLOCK are running on borrowed time.

You know this how? Someone told you this? Maybe you should PM Ricks91Gt....and actual engine builder with substantial seat time in race cars.....besides I never said I wanted 9's...I said mid 10's---big difference eh?

Oh, and last time I checked the mexican blocks have been 8's....has a stock block ever done this? So yeah, the mexican is quite a bit stronger.(don't read into this wrong and say "he said you can go 8's with a mexican )

Joes95GT said:
Think about it...if people are trying to make serious smoke and go with a Dart block, why don't they just buy a mexican block to get into the 9's? It's not because there aren't many mexican blocks around, either...

Maybe it's because they want to go faster than mid 10's--reliably? I don't think many people buy a Dart block with plans of going 10.5 and no faster....The 9sec. runs were to give you an example of how they have lasted in unusual circumstances.....

Joes95GT said:
Another question...

Your combination was a mexican block 347 with nitrous or a YS-trim. Why are you citing these turbo "facts" to support a supercharged/nitrous arguement? You do know that turbo motors make much MORE power than a supercharged motor with much LESS stress on the crank. Stress at the mains, particularly at the thrust (where most of the stress is on a blower car) KILLS motors.

This was just to give you an idea of some of the power running through these blocks(mostly so you could see the pictures of the block compared to a stocker)....Barry is at what...800+ rwhp. I don't think your average mid 10 sec fox has much to worry about.

1slow95 · Oct 22, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Paint and rims are basic maintnance items on a car 10yrs. old. I really don't know what you spent your money on, but I would like to see a general list excluding visual mods ie. paint, wheels, hood, etc.

I'm also guessing that you have done these modifications over an extended period of time, without the stresses of a car payment, higher insurance, and higher taxes. This boys and girls, is what draws people to 5.0's. You can buy a cheap one for 3-4k and slowly modify it while having a reliable car. Some may start out with the basic TB, MAF, exhaust, subframe, gear....and add to it as money alllows. This can't be done with the car payment of a 27k car.

For a complete list of my mods, click here --> http://highoutputgt.homelinux.net/info.htm
The $22-25K I stated earlier includes the $6500 I paid for my car. I don't see how you can say the paint and rims are not mods? Believe it or not, I've seen 03 Cobra's with different rims! As for the paint, yeah that could be a "maintenence item", but if you're building a 5.0 stang in place of an 03 Cobra, most people would want it to look good too. Im sure there's a lot of 95's out there that could use a fresh coat of paint, where I would hope most 03 Cobra's should not need repainted for a long time.

I've had my car going on 4 years now, but I only had a few bolt ons up until last spring when I did all the visual mods and paint. So you could say I've only been modding it for a little under 2 years. This time last year I bought a brand new Ranger, so yes I have had a payment for the last year(the reason my car isn't finished now). I also bought Jesse's 418 around the same time, and I've put close to $10K into the car since last fall. If I had sold my car and used that money and my new-engine money as a down payment on a $27K modded 03 Cobra, my payments would not be very much on a 5 year loan. I would have instant HP, an almost brand new car, and the "mod" money would be spread out over 5 years. Instead of working on my car for 5 years to get around the same power with less reliability/driveability, I would be able to actually enjoy my car for those 5 years.

I love working on cars, and Im eager to get started on another project, but right now I think I would have been happier going with an 03 Cobra instead of the 418. I just went a little horsepower crazy and got more engine than I wanted. I lost track of my most important goal, which was that I wanted to keep the car a semi-daily driver. I had enough sense to go with a milder cam, so I think with a tune and maybe a quieter exhaust, I can still achieve that goal. It would just be much easier to do that with an 03 Cobra tho.

I guess the upside to this whole thing is that I now drive a 33+mpg semi-fun car every day. I managed to get 12mpg one time with the 418

BTW, If you're just going for the fastest drag car, I agree with you that the 5.0 is probably the best choice. For a mild street/strip car, again the 5.0 would be cheaper, but still may not beat a stock 03 and would probably be less reliable. If you want a 10-11 second stock-reliability daily driver, it's hard to beat the 03 Cobra.

1slow95 · Oct 22, 2005

To try to get this thread back on topic, I would go $22-$26K depending on mods. I would prefer a stock one for the lower price, but I would probably buy one if it only had a few bolt-ons(exhaust, CAI, maybe a pulley).

mattkimsey · Oct 22, 2005

Low-5.0 said:
For a complete list of my mods, click here --> http://highoutputgt.homelinux.net/info.htm
The $22-25K I stated earlier includes the $6500 I paid for my car.

If I paid $6500 for a 5.0, I would expect it to have nice paint already. I paid $4k for my 5.0 and had it painted for $700(know someone)

Low-5.0 said:
I don't see how you can say the paint and rims are not mods? Believe it or not, I've seen 03 Cobra's with different rims!

Yes, 10 yr. old rims probably show their age, so I would call that a maintnence item. Besides, if your car cam with 5 stars, they could always be stripped and painted for cheap.

Low-5.0 said:
As for the paint, yeah that could be a "maintenence item", but if you're building a 5.0 stang in place of an 03 Cobra, most people would want it to look good too. Im sure there's a lot of 95's out there that could use a fresh coat of paint, where I would hope most 03 Cobra's should not need repainted for a long time.

I wouldn't be too certain about that. I've seen more than enough orange peel/peeling/bubbled paint on factory painted Mustangs...(the 05+ don't seem to be bad)

Low-5.0 said:
BTW, If you're just going for the fastest drag car, I agree with you that the 5.0 is probably the best choice. For a mild street/strip car, again the 5.0 would be cheaper, but still may not beat a stock 03 and would probably be less reliable. If you want a 10-11 second stock-reliability daily driver, it's hard to beat the 03 Cobra.

I agree, but like I've said before, the initial purchase price keeps most away from the Cobras. I bought my 90 w/70k miles 2 yrs. ago for 4k and it has been dead reliable while I've tweaked on it a little. Now, with less than 4k in mods I could be running mid-11's or better. That is a far cry from the 34k I would have in a stock Cobra after I would have it paid for. Not to mention the full coverage insurance(+$1,000 per year)and taxes.

This is not knocking the Cobra, it's just reality that most stangers can't swing 34k + insurance + tax + mods....yadda yadda. If your budget allows the Cobra may be the better option...such as your case.

If we could we'd all be drivin' 9 sec cars

mattkimsey · Oct 22, 2005

On a side note....for me, my short term goal(ie. affordable) is to run 11.5-11.8 on motor(also like going to the track and don't want a cage). I may have a hidden 5lb. bottle when I need it. I just need to decide if I want to do it in the 5.0 or with ls1.

So I'd say, a 03 Cobra for <10k would suffice

xr8d302 · Oct 22, 2005

under 10 k? You're a whacktard. Someone lock this thread before this guy makes himself look even worse.

Kid, when you actually build this 10, 11, or whatever second car you claim you could operate, send us the timeslips, then the maintenance repairs you pay over the next few years while producing those numbers.

mattkimsey · Oct 22, 2005

xr8d302 said:
under 10 k? You're a whacktard. Someone lock this thread before this guy makes himself look even worse.

Hopefully, you didn't take that statement seriously(although that's about all I could pay) My suggestion is to take a deep breath and don't take this intraweb stuff to heart whacktard....12? 13?

xr8d302 said:
Kid,

Whoa, talk about internet macho talk!

xr8d302 said:
then the maintenance repairs you pay over the next few years while producing those numbers.

If you know what yer-a-doin' you can avoid most of those

take it easy

Blackened302 · Oct 23, 2005

damnet, aaron, stop her-assing him and get pics of your gf up!

xr8d302 · Oct 23, 2005

hahaha, i can't do it man! She'll kill me, but i won't post on here anymore cause it's gone way overboard and off topic.

BlueOvalStangGT · Oct 23, 2005

You peoples posts were getting to long so I stopped after the second page but heres what I think. 03/04 Cobra are AMAZING. If I had the dollars, and never spent all that money on my car, I would own one in a heart beat. However, I have a strong liking for my car, even with all the trouble it causes me. I see my car as a lego set or something. I would buy the 03/04 if I was looking for a car to beat on anything while im on my way to work but it is much too nice of a car for me to take apart, rebuild and race. My 94 is simple, relativly cheap, and I love working on it. Unless my car is stolen( hopefully not anytime soon because I just bought a viper VX971 alarm for it :drool )., I turn into a millionaire or my car is wrecked, I will NEVER buy another sports car. Ill buy another car soon, probably make payments and itll be hell, but my mustang will always be there for me to take apart and beat on.

1slow95 · Oct 23, 2005

mattkimsey said:
If I paid $6500 for a 5.0, I would expect it to have nice paint already. I paid $4k for my 5.0 and had it painted for $700(know someone)

Wow you're a dumbass...You paid $4K for a '90 2 years ago(13 year old car), where I paid $6500 for a 95 4 years ago(6 year old car). I know they are cheap now, but back then $6500 was a pretty decent price. The front and rear bumpers were peeling, but the rest of the paint was fine when I got the car.

Yes, 10 yr. old rims probably show their age, so I would call that a maintnence item. Besides, if your car cam with 5 stars, they could always be stripped and painted for cheap. I wouldn't be too certain about that. I've seen more than enough orange peel/peeling/bubbled paint on factory painted Mustangs...(the 05+ don't seem to be bad)

I did not change rims because they were "showing their age", I changed them for the same reason that everyone else swaps rims. Though I don't suppose you understand why anybody would swap out perfectly fine stock rims for something else.

I agree, but like I've said before, the initial purchase price keeps most away from the Cobras. I bought my 90 w/70k miles 2 yrs. ago for 4k and it has been dead reliable while I've tweaked on it a little. Now, with less than 4k in mods I could be running mid-11's or better. That is a far cry from the 34k I would have in a stock Cobra after I would have it paid for. Not to mention the full coverage insurance(+$1,000 per year)and taxes.

Internally stock 5.0's are dead reliable, and it is possible to retain that reliability with a modified 5.0 if you build it right. IMHO, the 03 Cobra will be more reliable at higher HP levels because it was built from the factory to handle that HP. How many blown HG's have you heard about on 03 Cobra's compared to the 5.0?

Explain to me how $4k will get you into the mid 11's? I know it can be done if you know what you're doing, but I don't think you could do it without breaking something after a couple runs. Im thinking you either need to buy a lot of used parts, or go with a homemade turbo kit and use the rest of the $4k beefing up the transmission and rear end. I guess nitrous would probably work too.

This is not knocking the Cobra, it's just reality that most stangers can't swing 34k + insurance + tax + mods....yadda yadda. If your budget allows the Cobra may be the better option...such as your case.

If we could we'd all be drivin' 9 sec cars

This thread is about used Cobra's, which generally are not going for $34K. I know most stangers can't afford an 03, but Im sure that most of them would love to have one. And now that the price is dropping on used ones, your average stanger might just be able to afford one, which is the point of this thread.

As for me, Im just going through problems that every modder will eventually run into at some point. Right now I think the Cobra would have a better choice because I love to drive, and I can't really drive my car right now. Im sure as soon as I get the bugs worked out of it I'll love it. The one time it ran perfectly so far, I know I loved it.

Im done arguing now, and hopefully you'll do the same so maybe this thread can get back on topic. :Zip2:

super302 · Oct 23, 2005

03 cobras are CHEAP for what you get:
Awesome brakes, suspension, engine, tranny, interior, sound system, etc

Try putting all the above in a fox and you'll end up with a LOT more than the price of an '03 (23k or less)

super302 · Oct 23, 2005

Matt, if you can get into the mid 11's for 4k, let me know

At what price would you buy a Terminator?

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