ATS brake conversion question

stackz · May 16, 2024

so, I've been reading on the ATS cadillac swap some but have a question.

I have a 95 GT w/abs and stock brake system. I have 95 taurus SHO rear calipers and 99-04 pbr front calipers all ready to go on my car. I grabbed the soft lines with the pbr calipers as well when I was at the u-pull.

then I stumbled on the youtube video of the guy doing the ATS conversion....and then doing the XTS conversion lol.

was back out at the u-pull and there was an ATS there but it only had the driver side caliper left. I grabbed it and its soft line for $20. I have found a passenger side caliper online for $50 but it does not have the soft line with it.

I looked at the caliper mounting point on the pbr caliper and the ats caliper and they both look extremely similar. do I need to find a passenger ats soft line or has anyone used the stock 99-04 gt softlines on the ats calipers??

Mustang5L5 · May 16, 2024

You won't use the ATS brake soft lines. You need to use the mustang specific lines just for mounting and conforming the required bend. I used aftermarket lines which had a rounded head, not sure if the OE 99-04 lines will bolt up.

GM and Ford used a bolt spacing for their calipers that was 1-2mm off. Not sure if this was done on purpose by one of the manufacturers, but it's close but not perfect. You can hog out your spindles, or buy the recommended caliper inserts.

Those are sold here

Shop | S&S Engineering

www.ssengineeringllc.com

stackz · May 16, 2024

Mustang5L5 said:
You won't use the ATS brake soft lines. You need to use the mustang specific lines just for mounting and conforming the required bend. I used aftermarket lines which had a rounded head, not sure if the OE 99-04 lines will bolt up.

GM and Ford used a bolt spacing for their calipers that was 1-2mm off. Not sure if this was done on purpose by one of the manufacturers, but it's close but not perfect. You can hog out your spindles, or buy the recommended caliper inserts.

Those are sold here

Shop | S&S Engineering

www.ssengineeringllc.com

yeah, saw the kits for sale there and will purchase one once I get my hands on a passenger side ats caliper. I guess later today or tomorrow I will take the soft line off the pbr and see if it fits on the ats caliper and tightens down properly. I mean at the end of the day I wont know for sure until I mount it and bleed the system and see if it leaks at the mounting point.

but at least I know now that I dont need to go around and try to find another cadillac soft line so I can go ahead and buy that other caliper I found.

stackz · May 16, 2024

just going to put this here so I dont have to search for it again.

SN-95 Mustang Brake Bias Calculator

Compare front and rear brake combinations for SN-95 Mustangs. Calculates brake bias from pad outlines, piston areas, and rotor diameters.

lawpaul.github.io

and per this, I would definitely want to swap to the taurus rear calipers vs keeping my stock calipers while retaining my stock 95 gt rear rotors right? can you "feel" a difference betwen 70.2 and 75.0 bias?

KRUISR · May 16, 2024

I used the same soft lines with my XTS calipers as I had on the my previous Lincoln LS calipers (very similar to PBRs). Basically the banjo bolt thread is the same for the Cadillac and the mustang.

stackz · May 17, 2024

KRUISR said:
I used the same soft lines with my XTS calipers as I had on the my previous Lincoln LS calipers (very similar to PBRs). Basically the banjo bolt thread is the same for the Cadillac and the mustang.

ok, but what soft lines were they? aftermarket? stock ford mustang? year? thats what I'm trying to get at.

KRUISR · May 17, 2024

Stock Ford, SN95 if I remember right.

stackz · May 22, 2024

KRUISR said:
Stock Ford, SN95 if I remember right.

hmm, did you use 94-98 or 99-04? I have both but right now I just tried putting the 99-04 line on the ats caliper and it wouldnt bottom out. its weird. I hold the banjo bolts next to each other and they seem to be the same length...I will try using the ats banjo bolt on the mustang line later when I get a chance. I also had to put the mustang line on backwards as compared to how it hooked to the pbr caliper so thats another weirdo thing...

Mustang5L5 · May 22, 2024

Ford made a course and fine pitch banjo bolt for the SN95 calipers depending on the year. I have both and neither fit my ATS brembos.

Edit: Early Ford banjos are M10 x 1.0 and later ones are M10 x 1.5. I think the transition year is around 2001/2002.

stackz · May 22, 2024

Mustang5L5 said:
Ford made a course and fine pitch banjo bolt for the SN95 calipers depending on the year. I have both and neither fit my ATS brembos.

Edit: Early Ford banjos are M10 x 1.0 and later ones are M10 x 1.5. I think the transition year is around 2001/2002.

Oh that's not what I meant. It actually threaded in fine. It just didn't seat properly is all. There was still a tiny bit of play on the attachment point.

Got back home and sure enough,the inside crush washer was stuck to the mustang caliper. Snugs up perfect now and with the mustang banjo bolt. Here's a pic if the Cadillac and mustang banjos next to each other.

stackz · May 22, 2024

Mustang5L5 said:
Ford made a course and fine pitch banjo bolt for the SN95 calipers depending on the year. I have both and neither fit my ATS brembos.

Edit: Early Ford banjos are M10 x 1.0 and later ones are M10 x 1.5. I think the transition year is around 2001/2002.

also, I forget how I stumbled on it but I found your youtube channel (if its not you its a really really weird coincidence). anyway...this video:

at 2:03 in, you state the only difference is the caliper bracket that you can get off rockauto (which you still can for $15+5 core)...but the rotor is obviously larger and vented. I want this but its a larger diameter rotor than the v6/gt ones. I already have the taurus 43mm calipers (actually got them off a 93 SHO surprisingly enough that there was one at the upull this day and age) I do not need to get the other cobra specific components (cobra adapter brackets and anti moan braces)?

doesnt it being a larger rotor also necessitate spacing the caliper off further with the adapter brackets?

Mustang5L5 · May 22, 2024

Yup that’s me.

Yes, the larger diameter cobra rotor requires different spacing, but that’s done with a different bracket. Not the caliper bracket

https://lmr.com/item/M2300M/94-04-Mustang-Ford-Racing-Rear-Brake-Caliper-Bracket-Kit?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp&sc_intid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7ayBhAPEiwA6EIGxIGiIxR_fgyIncd9O9E7RhH4CQCDBJk4g6qV2I_-B_OrupO2NcjG8BoCac0QAvD_BwE

In the above kit, look at the large brackets on bottom right. Those bolt to the axle. The GT/v6 and cobra use different brackets with different spacing. This is what accounts for the offset with the larger rotors.

Make sense? If not let me know I sorta rushed this tonight as I had to run out.

stackz · May 23, 2024

Mustang5L5 said:
Yup that’s me.

Yes, the larger diameter cobra rotor requires different spacing, but that’s done with a different bracket. Not the caliper bracket

https://lmr.com/item/M2300M/94-04-Mustang-Ford-Racing-Rear-Brake-Caliper-Bracket-Kit?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp&sc_intid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwr7ayBhAPEiwA6EIGxIGiIxR_fgyIncd9O9E7RhH4CQCDBJk4g6qV2I_-B_OrupO2NcjG8BoCac0QAvD_BwE

In the above kit, look at the large brackets on bottom right. Those bolt to the axle. The GT/v6 and cobra use different brackets with different spacing. This is what accounts for the offset with the larger rotors.

Make sense? If not let me know I sorta rushed this tonight as I had to run out.

oh yeah, totally makes sense. just it threw me off in your video is all talking about the only difference being the caliper bracket which is why I asked. I've had these in my cart for a little while thinking this was all I needed:

For Ford Cobra 11.65" Rear Disc Brake Conversion 94-04 SN95 Mustang GT SVT 5.0 | eBay

Used to install Mustang Cobra, Mach 1, or Special Edition rear brake rotors on a 94-04 Mustang GT. For 94-04 Ford Mustang GT V6. Bracket kit does not include calipers, rotors, or brake lines. 1x P air of Brake Caliper Brackets.

www.ebay.com

so do I need the caliper bracket itself? dont want to buy something I dont need is all. I could care less if the caliper bracket is correct by being closed on the front face or not. and I guess along those lines, can I re-use my anti moan braces? just simply swap for the longer caliper brackets and get the bigger rotors and be done with it.

do I also need the cobra caliper attaching bracket?? as in, its boxed in to help with structural rigidity or something necessary?

Mustang5L5 · May 23, 2024

stackz said:
oh yeah, totally makes sense. just it threw me off in your video is all talking about the only difference being the caliper bracket which is why I asked.

Yeah i sometimes wish i could go back and edit videos. I no longer have the original files for that one.

What i really referring to was the calipers themselves, which usually include the caliper bracket. The actual caliper portion that clamps is essentially the same wether it's 38mm or 43mm. It's the pad abutment bracket that changes between cobra, GT and taurus. I never confirmed that the taurus bracket was the same as the GT. Looks the same, but different part number so there's likly some sort of change.

But if you have an existing cobra brake setuo, you are just exchanging the 38mm calipers (with the pistons) out for the 43's. If you are building the setup up from drum brakes, there are other parts needed that i didn't cover in that video.

If you are starting from a 1995 GT rear brake setup and want to go to Cobra with the 43mm calipers, you need:

Cobra axle brackets
Cobra anti-moans
Cobra pad abutment bracket (the boxed in version)
Cobra pads (they are thinner than GT pads)
Cobra rotors

The cobra abutment bracket has a wider slot for the thicker cobra rotor. The GT bracket won't fit.

There are two kits on the market:

Ford Racing M-2300-M kit (linked a few posts up)

LMR's SVE kit

https://lmr.com/item/SVE-2300-K/mustang-cobra-rear-brake-conversion-94-04-gt-v6

The rear dust shields are the same between GT and cobra.

stackz · May 23, 2024

gotcha, cool. in that case I'm just going to swap to the 43mm taurus caliper on the rear to keep bias correct. I can upgrade to the cobra stuff later on down the road. got other things to spend that couple hundred bucks on right now, thanks!

stackz · May 31, 2024

hmmm, trying to order the 43mm rear caliper rebuild kits and not sure what ones to get? the calipers I have are from a 95 sho as all the regular taurus's in the u-pull had drums on the rear. went on rock auto to get the rebuild kits and it is saying the rear bore is 54mm? Dorman D352797. there's also a FVP Fh41148 and rasybestos wk2797. anyone know if any of these are correct? I assume bore diameter is for the caliper body and not the piston bore itself...

Mustang5L5 · May 31, 2024

I see 43mm on the Dorman D352797

stackz · May 31, 2024

ahhh I didnt even think to look at the info. when you look at it in the drop down menu from the vehicle selection it had 54mm for whatever reason. again, I think that was for the bore of the caliper housing vs the piston bore. just ordered.

Mustang5L5 · May 31, 2024

I saw that too.

Those calipers come on:

93-07 Taurus ALL
93-02 Continental ALL
93-06 Sable ALL

stackz · May 31, 2024

weird question as I havent completely given up on converting to the cobra rear vented rotors. you happen to have heard through the grapevine of anyone using the ebay aluminum caliper brackets? as in, with these being thicker and all, do you still need the anti moan brackets with them? I havent been able to get any of the drop ship sellers on there to give me an answer and I'm not really sure how to search them online as every time I search, its just results for the factory stamped brackets.

ATS brake conversion question

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SN-95 Mustang Brake Bias Calculator

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That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

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For Ford Cobra 11.65" Rear Disc Brake Conversion 94-04 SN95 Mustang GT SVT 5.0 | eBay

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That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

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