Bad Alternator? Dies with AC on!

DRock9

New Member
Aug 22, 2006
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A few days ago I noticed that when I put my AC on and revv'd my car it would dip down to about 500RPM then go back to 700, almost dying. I was told it was my IAC so I took it off the side of the throttle body and cleaned it, I just took a paper towel and did the best job I could...did I do it right? But anyways, I put it back on the car and it was idling fine, then I put on the AC and the idle drops right to 500RPM and is right on the verge of stalling, but at the same time the voltage in the car drops way down low so I am thinking it is my alternator that is causing this. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks!
 
alternator output varies with RPM, so it makes sense that voltage drops when RPM drops. You should consider getting some Throttle body cleaner (not carb cleaner, there is special throttle body cleaner that is different and needs to be used). Use the throttle body cleaner to clean your IAC thoroughly and see if that helps.

What sounds like is happening is that when your A/C is turned on, it creates extra drag on the engine, so the IAC tries to increase the idle speed and it's creating a surging condition instead.
 
Now that I cleaned it a little when I turn on the AC the RPM's just drop right to 500. Would engine degreaser work ok? I don't have any TB Cleaner at my house, but I can make a quick trip to Autozone.
 
"From Snake1
If you have R12 in your A/C you might want to check the charge on your A/C.
Low Charge = hunting idle Only possible if the hunting idle only happens when the A/C is on.
unplug your compressor and see if it makes a difference. It did with my 88 GT and it went to a steady 650 RPM.

jrichker's notes: This is one that will get you if you aren't careful, and it will do it with R134 too. Watch the A/C clutch while the car is in neutral and idling. If it cycles on and off, frequently, you are either low on refrigerant or have a misadjusted low pressure cut out switch. The cutout switch is supposed to shut off the compressor electrical power at pressures below 18 PSI. If it is set too high, then the compressor will cycle on and off continually, causing an idle surge."

What is an R12, R134? What is the A/C Clutch and where/how do i unplug the compressor?

Thanks!
 
R12 & R134 are types of refrigerant gas used in automotive A/C systems. R12 was the original refrigerant gas used in A/C systems, but it no longer being manufactured in the USA or Canada. It is also illegal to sell it to anyone who does not have an EPA 609 A/C certification. Many Mustangs have been converted to R134 for that reason.

The A/C clutch is on the front of the A/C compressor. It has a big electromagnet that pulls the clutch hub against the pulley when electrical power is applied to the clutch.

The A/C compressor has a two wire pigtail harness that goes to the A/C clutch assembly. The pigtail has a connector plug right at the top of the A/C clutch assembly.
 
I just went out there, I couldn't tell whether nor not the clutch was engaging/disengaging but here is what I did.

Idled at about 650 with compressor connected, blip the throttle then it went up to 2k down to 500 then back up to 650. When I flipped on the AC there was an instant drop in the current and in my idle, down to about 550-580.

I disconnected it and then when I turned the AC on it slowly went down this time, and not as much maybe to about 600. I again blipped the throttle and it did the same thing, except not as much this time.

I also noticed that when I blipped the throttle with the AC off, it went up to 2k then down to about 800-900 RPM and stayed there for a couple seconds then went down to 650.

Can anyone diagnose this problem?


ALSO! I noticed a ticking coming from the driver side head, I think it's something in the valvetrain but it is really noticiable. I had my brother-in-law rev the car while he was in it and it went away at a certain RPM's but I could not tell exactly what at the time.

EDIT: I think it might be an exhaust leak, I have the gaskets that came with the ****ty BBK headers in there so I think those might be the culprit...but I am not about to change them out.
 
Go through the "Surging Idle Checklist one itenm at at time. Be sure not to skip any steps: you will find and fix the problem. Jumping around the checklist means you are more likely to jump over the exact thing that is causing your problem.
 
I have already been through the whole list, I have it singled down to either this AC problem, a failed O2 sensor, or insufficient voltage at idle. I am thinking that it is the voltage problem because I don't notice anything bad with the AC system...but I am going to try to check the O2 sensors because my car is running lean enough to detonate on 87 octane when I get on it hard. So either my O2 sensors are bad or my header gasket is leaking.
 
Igntion timing advanced too far (more than 14-16 degrees) will cause an idle surge. I found this out after replacing the harmonic balancer. The balancer had spun, moving the timing marks. Then I had to advance the timing to line up the marks using a timing light. That gave too much advance, resulting in an idle surge.

Be sure to set your timing with a good timing light and remove the SPOUT connector when you set it. Put the SPOUT connector back in when you finish setting the timing.
 
The timing is stock as far as I know, I am going to get a new alternator and see if that is the problem...but just as I was driving it I dropped it into neutral coasting to a stop and it randomly started to surge, first started off as a little +/- 100RPM surge then grew to a +/- 600RPM surge.

I am going to pull the IAC again and clean it more, but I am not so sure that a faulty O2 sensor would cause this type of surge.
 
A bad O2 sensor would likely set code 41/91.

Code 41 or 91 - O2 indicates system lean. Look for a vacuum leak or failing O2 sensor.

The computer sees a lean mixture signal coming from the O2 sensors and tries to compensate by adding more fuel. Many times the end result is an engine that runs pig rich and stinks of unburned fuel.

The following is a Quote from Charles O. Probst, Ford fuel Injection & Electronic Engine control:
"When the mixture is lean, the exhaust gas has oxygen, about the same amount as the ambient air. So the sensor will generate less than 400 Millivolts. Remember lean = less voltage.

When the mixture is rich, there's less oxygen in the exhaust than in the ambient air , so voltage is generated between the two sides of the tip. The voltage is greater than 600 millivolts. Remember rich = more voltage.

Here's a tip: the newer the sensor, the more the voltage changes, swinging from as low as 0.1 volt to as much as 0.9 volt. As an oxygen sensor ages, the voltage changes get smaller and slower - the voltage change lags behind the change in exhaust gas oxygen.

Because the oxygen sensor generates its own voltage, never apply voltage and never measure resistance of the sensor circuit. To measure voltage signals, use an analog voltmeter with a high input impedance, at least 10 megohms. Remember, a digital voltmeter will average a changing voltage." End Quote

Testing the O2 sensors
Measuring the O2 sensor voltage at the computer will give you a good idea of how well they are working. You'll have to pull the passenger side kick panel off to gain access to the computer connector. Remove the plastic wiring cover to get to the back side of the wiring. Use a safety pin or paper clip to probe the connections from the rear. The computer pins are 29 (LH O2 with a dark green/pink wire) and 43 (RH O2 with a dark blue/pink wire). Use the ground next to the computer to ground the voltmeter.

Testing the O2 sensor wiring harness
Most of the common multimeters have a resistance scale. Be sure the O2 sensors are disconnected and measure the resistance from the O2 sensor body harness to the pins on the computer.

Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter. Do not attempt to measure the resistance of the O2 sensors, it may damage them.

The O2 sensor ground (orange wire with a ring terminal on it) is in the wiring harness for the fuel injection wiring. I grounded mine to one of the intake manifold bolts