Before buying a new Ford consider this...
- Thread starter LizardKing 2002
- Start date
kirkyg said:
Not true. If your modifying is damage yes. If it is an upgrade, you may leave it on.
I save $4K a year in taxes ... is it really? no.
Consider this. The residual value at the end of my lease will be ~$2K UNDER the wholesale value of the stang. If I buy my lease, and sell it I will make $3K. If i decide to part with... I will simply loose this $2K - cost of leasing.
FYI, before thinking you know everything about a lease you should find out everything underlying about it.
Dealer has nothing to do with this. HEAD OFFICE! I know I have all the legal recourse to win. They know too. It is a waste of my time to go after them for $400. The fact they force me to engage legal action is the reason for distaste.
the dealership i was at when i was looking at cobras told me it was fine to mod the car even if i leased on, i just had to take the parts off when i traded it back in after the term of the lease was up. they even offered to give that promise to me in writing. i guess some dealers are just different than others. 
lgndracer
New Member
Everyone is missing a very improtant key in this situation. He is in CANADA. The Moss-Magnuson act is a US upholding. Laws in the US and Canada are not alway the same. While it is illegal for Ford to void your warranty in the US for this, it very well could be OK in Canada.
This is not about the lease.
This is not even about having a legal case. I know I have one. I work for a legal firm, ... I can be represented for nothing. In fact I have precedents showing simillar cases ruling for our clients.
I don't care to go and waste my time in small claims court for $400.
Ford KNOWS they have no case. They know I know they have no case. YET they are playing by their rule book.
My point is to advise future buyers of Ford products. Ford plays by its rules. If you intend on buying a Mustang don't intend on modify it if you intendend on keeping your warranty. - They WILL get technical on you.
I have heard in the past year Ford has cancelled out a bunch of client services, tightening a bunch of existing programs (reconditioning was hit hard) ... and at the sametime affecting clients.
Sales are down. Toyota is now second largest. For made $495M of profit against Toyota's 7Billion for the same revenue.
Things are not looking bright.
(Have you seen the new Focus? WTF!!!)
This is not even about having a legal case. I know I have one. I work for a legal firm, ... I can be represented for nothing. In fact I have precedents showing simillar cases ruling for our clients.
I don't care to go and waste my time in small claims court for $400.
Ford KNOWS they have no case. They know I know they have no case. YET they are playing by their rule book.
My point is to advise future buyers of Ford products. Ford plays by its rules. If you intend on buying a Mustang don't intend on modify it if you intendend on keeping your warranty. - They WILL get technical on you.
I have heard in the past year Ford has cancelled out a bunch of client services, tightening a bunch of existing programs (reconditioning was hit hard) ... and at the sametime affecting clients.
Sales are down. Toyota is now second largest. For made $495M of profit against Toyota's 7Billion for the same revenue.
Things are not looking bright.
(Have you seen the new Focus? WTF!!!)
i have every mod you can think of on my 02 gt and just had it at the dealership fixing the differential seal leak,under warranty.they know i have a s/c and i/c because when i left the lot with my fixed differential seal,under waranty the hood of my car was not closed all the way.so they must have been looking at my engine to admire my mods. 
it really has to do with the dealership.that's not the first time i had my car in for warrranty work either.
eski
i need to change my sig
it really has to do with the dealership.that's not the first time i had my car in for warrranty work either.
eski
i need to change my sig
Nope...in that case they would have to follow the rules in pay for autoworkers. You think worker in Mexico are making 35 bucks an hour? Do they have overtime compansation? Do they have a 40 hour work week? An 8 hour/5 day work week (or 10 hour/4day)? Aside from the first question all are US Federal laws but they don't apply to other countries. They can pay whatever they want and employees work as many hours as they are willing at straight time.mogs01gt said:
coramprat said:
What does a dealerships pay scale have anything to do what is setup at Ford headquarters? Cancelling warranties does not come down to the dealership. They can say no they wont do it but they do not have the rights to cancell it.
You know this post has a feel of 'I am going down in flames and trying to bring Ford with me'.
I am flustered but you know what, I just needed to confirm that this is ****n stupid of them. I had every intention of purchasing an 05 Stang. There is no way I am even remotly interested now. My experience leaves me thinking bottomline comes before clients, regardless of surrounding matters.
I am flustered but you know what, I just needed to confirm that this is ****n stupid of them. I had every intention of purchasing an 05 Stang. There is no way I am even remotly interested now. My experience leaves me thinking bottomline comes before clients, regardless of surrounding matters.
kirkyg
Founding Member
LizardKing 2002 said:
Within the first couple of years is the only chance to have any value from leasing. Your basically throwing money away and you will never have anything to show for it. What is this about 4,000 tax savings? There is no way. Even if you decucted your entire amount spent on your vehicle / year it would NEVER save your 4000 on your taxes even in the highest tax bracket. How in the freakin world are you coming up with these wild and completely WRONG statements. Sounds to me like some dealers got to ya and talked you into leasing and ripped you the freak off!
kirkyg
I think it is a Canada thing. I had no problems with my modded GT from mod friendly, and non friendly dealers. Dealers here in the US know that they can't void the warranty without proving that the part you put on caused a failure. You replaced a item that wears out. what you are telling us is that your warranty was voided because of an aftermarket exhaust. That means if anyone deicides to get their rusted out stock exhaust replaced with something from MIDAS (just an example), the warranty would be voided. 
And Ford knows that it is . They are relying on you to do just what you are doing.....not fight back. It's not a money thing, it is a principle thing. Everyone involved knows that there is no case. Major corporations dont expect the average Joe to fight back. And you are proving them right.
And Ford knows that it is
. They are relying on you to do just what you are doing.....not fight back. It's not a money thing, it is a principle thing. Everyone involved knows that there is no case. Major corporations dont expect the average Joe to fight back. And you are proving them right.
downsouthman1
Member
Ford always did my warranty work (about $2000 worth of parts & labor), even w/ many mods on my car. It wasn't until they couldn't get rid of the sound coming out of the rear-end after an accident that they had an employee steal a wheel off my car & then not do anything about it so as to make me stop bringing my car there for warranty work. I have a different car now but on that car had just purchased an extended warranty. So case in point is I still had a warranty but the dealer forced me to never use it there again.
kirkyg said:
Lease is for $645/mo. (CAN) $7,740 a year. I am taxed at exactly half my profits with my consulting company, since my normal T4 brings me to the highest bracket. A lease (unlike purchasing) can be declared 100%. Do the math $38XX.
You say a lease is THROWING money out the window? Go buy a $30K stang walk off the lot with it - You just THREW OUT $5K instantly. You will keep THROWING OUT MONEY, until you get rid of the car or it becomes a collectable. The lease is just a different way of looking at throwing money out the window. They key is knowing what to do on lease end. I don't expect many of you to understand this. Leasing is a very smart move for me.
Next lease I get will be an Audi for the family. I'll just flufn buy the stang at the end of lease @ $2K lower than wholesale value. I may sell it and get an LS1... don't know yet.
LizardKing 2002 said:
Maybe most of us don't understand leasing the way you do. But one thing I know. I just made the last payment on my '98 GT vert. I now own the car and I can sell it for ~$10,000.00 more or less (here in Vegas, I can get more). If I had leased the car, I would now have to be buying my car for that ~$10,000.00. If I had totalled the car while paying for it, I would have most likely got enough money for the payoff and then some. If I had totalled it under a lease. I would have just been without a car anymore or a new lease.
I think most of us are going to be hard to convince that leasing is a better option in most cases than buying straight out.
I am not trying to convince anyone. I have a tax advantage to help me out.
Leasing is exactly like financing with an option in the middle to either get out of the deal or buy. There are NO hidden fees.
Fictive numbers
$20000 - price of vehicle
- $12000 - Residual value (end of term price of your car - pre-established and fixed)
---------
$8000 - TO FINANCE FOR LEASING.
x 3% - Whatever financing rates are going at.
= monthly price for your lease over preset amount of years.
At the end of the term your Mustang will have depreciated to approximately the value of your residual. If you would be financing, this would be the break even point where you can sell your loan for the price of the car.
----------------------------
I'm just going to stop trying to explain leases. I don't need to convince you guys. I am happy, my wallet is happy, and so is my wife. Those are the most important things.
Leasing is exactly like financing with an option in the middle to either get out of the deal or buy. There are NO hidden fees.
Fictive numbers
$20000 - price of vehicle
- $12000 - Residual value (end of term price of your car - pre-established and fixed)
---------
$8000 - TO FINANCE FOR LEASING.
x 3% - Whatever financing rates are going at.
= monthly price for your lease over preset amount of years.
At the end of the term your Mustang will have depreciated to approximately the value of your residual. If you would be financing, this would be the break even point where you can sell your loan for the price of the car.
----------------------------
I'm just going to stop trying to explain leases. I don't need to convince you guys. I am happy, my wallet is happy, and so is my wife. Those are the most important things.
john_324
New Member
mogs01gt said:
I think the issue comes down to what Canadian law says regarding the issue.
While Ford's behavior in this situation would be illegal in the U.S., it may be perfectly legal in Canada.
Companies are obliged to obey the laws of the countries in which they operate. Canadian law may very well allow a company to refuse any warranty service on a modded car, and may even specify a different relationship between manufacturer and dealer. It's unfortunate if it is so, but it is the law...
kirkyg
Founding Member
LizardKing, first off, don't try and convince KirkyG, he is an opinionated, know-it-all, who doesn't take the time to learn anything before running his fingers on a keyboard.
KirkyG, please don't respond.
I have been leasing cars/trucks for 30 years and know the benifits and dissadvantages very well. There are many instances that leasing is quite adventageous and others it does not make sense. Do what you think is best for yourself, and don't argue with people.
Back to your problem, what reason was given for Ford to come out and look at your car in the first place? Normally, the service department makes the initial call whether to perform warranty work or not, not Ford. If the dealer decides not to do the work, this is when Ford steps in and backs up the dealer, unless there is a catastrophic failure.
There only two reasons I can see Ford giving you a hard time, is they do not want to remove your exhaust system to do the work, seeing they will be held responsible for it if there is damage during removal and re-install or re-installing it incorrectly. The other reason might be the Ford Credit issue, seeing they are the legal owner of the vehicle and do not feel they gave you the right to mod the car in any way.
I thinks Mr. Jason Keay is blowing smoke up your backside. He knows more then he is saying.
KirkyG, please don't respond.
I have been leasing cars/trucks for 30 years and know the benifits and dissadvantages very well. There are many instances that leasing is quite adventageous and others it does not make sense. Do what you think is best for yourself, and don't argue with people.
Back to your problem, what reason was given for Ford to come out and look at your car in the first place? Normally, the service department makes the initial call whether to perform warranty work or not, not Ford. If the dealer decides not to do the work, this is when Ford steps in and backs up the dealer, unless there is a catastrophic failure.
There only two reasons I can see Ford giving you a hard time, is they do not want to remove your exhaust system to do the work, seeing they will be held responsible for it if there is damage during removal and re-install or re-installing it incorrectly. The other reason might be the Ford Credit issue, seeing they are the legal owner of the vehicle and do not feel they gave you the right to mod the car in any way.
I thinks Mr. Jason Keay is blowing smoke up your backside. He knows more then he is saying.
