Is there anyway to get the rear brakes to do work better ? I have a new master cylnder , all new fluid, fresh cut drums , no leaks all the wheels have been bled and still the rear wheels dont stop like they should ? I have tried about everything, the fronts are fine I just cant get then damm rear's to really stop???????? please help ???? any ideas
better rear braking on a 1990 coupe
- Thread starter johnnyboy1111
- Start date
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
Not sure what you mean by braking better. The pressure proportioning valve is probably doing what it's supposed to do - which is limiting pressure to the rear so you don't have premature rear lock up - not a good trait to have. Besides, the vast majority of the stopping force on a car with a suspension like the fox body's is provided by the front brakes. So enhancements at the rear look good, but they usually do little to actually improve stopping performance. If something's defective - of course fix it. But if better stopping performance is what you're after with your mods - focus on front brake upgrades - and stickier tires. Contrary to common belief - the brakes don't stop the car. The brakes stop the tires - the tires stop the car. If your current front brakes will hold the tire on the limit of it's adhesion for one stop, then bigger brakes won't stop you any shorter. Stickier tires are what it will take to stop you shorter. Once your stock brakes won't hold the stickier tires on the edge of adhesion for the whole stop, then it's time to upgrade the front brakes. Unless you're road-coursing the car, I wouldn't even worry with rear brakes.
Michael Yount said:
What ever.
Larger brakes will modulate you better so you dont have to lock up the brakes. Locking up the brakes tells you nothing about braking. Just spiking the system.
Larger brakes work better. Simple as leverage. Do some homework, Baer has a TON of FAQs to educate you and maybe have something for your Volva to.
If you want better brakes, throw the drums in the trash where they belong and start upgrading to disc brakes.
brakes
Thanks guys I did upgrade the fronts with drilled rotors , best pads I could find , I now vacum out all the old fluid after reading how it breaks down, I think I'll go with new lines & just rebuild the whole rear brake assembly , I remember she use to stop pretty good when she was younger now at 14 years old its time for some serious refurbishing....I have a newer Stang but cant part with this 5.0 coupe it also has the "special service option " and was never issued to any Police agency I have the original window sticker with the price and options.....it has over 170,000 and still purrs , no oil burning and will run with the best of them.............................................
Thanks guys I did upgrade the fronts with drilled rotors , best pads I could find , I now vacum out all the old fluid after reading how it breaks down, I think I'll go with new lines & just rebuild the whole rear brake assembly , I remember she use to stop pretty good when she was younger now at 14 years old its time for some serious refurbishing....I have a newer Stang but cant part with this 5.0 coupe it also has the "special service option " and was never issued to any Police agency I have the original window sticker with the price and options.....it has over 170,000 and still purrs , no oil burning and will run with the best of them.............................................
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
You miss the point Matt - it's not about trying to lock them up. IF the brakes are capable of holding the tires on the edge of lock up for the stop, then they're capable of getting the most out of the tires. At least for one hard stop - which is about all that's ever required for street use. As I mentioned, if you're tracking the car (road racing), it's a different issue. Repeated use on the small stockers will over-heat them causing fade. Bigger brakes can cure that. But for one stop, bigger brakes offer no significant improvement if the current brakes will hold the tire on the edge. They do look good -- but for one stop, most newer car's brakes will stop just as quickly. Took me a bit of searching to find it - here's a more scientific example.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=2852&page_number=1
From the article, a quote from the folks at Brembo - even better known in braking circles than your friends at Baer -- "Our objective here was primarily to test brake fade, not stopping distances. Assuming a brake system is properly balanced, strong enough to lock a wheel, and not yet hot enough to fade, the stopping distance is largely a function of tire traction, not brakes. Think of it this way: All brake systems, stock and aftermarket, are able to activate the ABS, so how could a stronger brake shorten a stop? Eric Dahl, a brake engineer from Brembo, put it this way: "Don't expect the brake kits to stop you sooner, but expect the 20th lap to feel like the first."
Thanks for the reference - but the Volvo comes from the factory with Brembo-supplied vented front rotors, 4 wheel discs w/4 piston calipers in the front and 2-piston calipers in the rear. The simple addition of stainless braided brake lines and hi/po pads are all that's needed to improve feel. It has plenty of fade-free stopping power -- even with the bigger wheels and tires I've got on it.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=2852&page_number=1
From the article, a quote from the folks at Brembo - even better known in braking circles than your friends at Baer -- "Our objective here was primarily to test brake fade, not stopping distances. Assuming a brake system is properly balanced, strong enough to lock a wheel, and not yet hot enough to fade, the stopping distance is largely a function of tire traction, not brakes. Think of it this way: All brake systems, stock and aftermarket, are able to activate the ABS, so how could a stronger brake shorten a stop? Eric Dahl, a brake engineer from Brembo, put it this way: "Don't expect the brake kits to stop you sooner, but expect the 20th lap to feel like the first."
Thanks for the reference - but the Volvo comes from the factory with Brembo-supplied vented front rotors, 4 wheel discs w/4 piston calipers in the front and 2-piston calipers in the rear. The simple addition of stainless braided brake lines and hi/po pads are all that's needed to improve feel. It has plenty of fade-free stopping power -- even with the bigger wheels and tires I've got on it.
I'm a fan of rear discs, but over the years the magazines have tested them and even suggested that they don't make stopping all that much easier. The drums are adequate for normal street driving, if in proper working order.
It's a pretty small percentage of power that goes to the rear brakes on a fox, so you'd probably benifit more from a front brake upgrade than a rear disc upgrade.
If you are not beating the hell out of the car, and braking hard over and over in short periods of time, rear drums are fine.
I'm in agreeance with mr. yount on this one. I've seen the test numbers and he's right per one stop even the biggest set of brakes doesn't make much of a difference, it's when the heat builds up from multiple hard stops that you're in trouble.
It's a pretty small percentage of power that goes to the rear brakes on a fox, so you'd probably benifit more from a front brake upgrade than a rear disc upgrade.
If you are not beating the hell out of the car, and braking hard over and over in short periods of time, rear drums are fine.
I'm in agreeance with mr. yount on this one. I've seen the test numbers and he's right per one stop even the biggest set of brakes doesn't make much of a difference, it's when the heat builds up from multiple hard stops that you're in trouble.
Michael Yount
Mustang Master
...or heat buildup from one hard very high speed stop --- however, that situation also rarely presents itself on the street.
Rear discs look great - but especially on a nose-heavy car like the fox body, unless the suspension geometry has been altered to create more anti-dive, so much weight transfers to the front end under heavy braking, that even rear discs do little to improve stopping distances over rear drums. You can improve the brakes back there all you want -- but it's the tire that stops the car. And under heavy braking, there's very little weight on the rear tires - so they can't apply much stopping force no matter how good the brakes are.
I think we've done the homework Matt - time for you to crack a book I suspect. And I'd suggest you read more than the Baer's marketing materials - they are after all intended to help sell brake components.
Rear discs look great - but especially on a nose-heavy car like the fox body, unless the suspension geometry has been altered to create more anti-dive, so much weight transfers to the front end under heavy braking, that even rear discs do little to improve stopping distances over rear drums. You can improve the brakes back there all you want -- but it's the tire that stops the car. And under heavy braking, there's very little weight on the rear tires - so they can't apply much stopping force no matter how good the brakes are.
I think we've done the homework Matt - time for you to crack a book I suspect. And I'd suggest you read more than the Baer's marketing materials - they are after all intended to help sell brake components.
