Black Jack: LMR door lock actuators suck!
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New build's foundation: Mexican 302.
I found a mexican block near my parents' home in Ohio for $400. The fella thinks it's still on its original 4.00" bore. I'm worried about the rust, but excited to give it a shot. If that doesn't work out, Michael Bell has one that's already been built for $600.
I also learned that apparently around '74, the mexican blocks added .020" deck height. I'd guess this was a compression drop due to gas era stuff. It would be good for turbo/blower motors on pump gas. But, I'm hoping the block I'm looking at is the earlier version, or that I can find some affordable pistons that will bring compression back to near 11:1, as the extra compression be preferable to me NA, and I dont think it hurts on nitrous.
Would be lovely if the crank and balancer check out too, and then all I need to get are improved rods and pistons.
For those who may find this later, it's hard to beat the info in this thread:
www.theturboforums.com
And, though the pics aren't showing up for me now, they may be the ones I reposted here:
stangnet.com
The cliff's notes on why a mexican block:
- The #1 issue is keeping the main caps from chattering and walking. Girdles don't fix that, and balancing doesn't either. A rotating assy is balanced at TDC and BDC, but at 90*, the weight still has to be contained by the main cap. When you have a thicker cap and webbing, that obviously helps, and mexican blocks have wider and thicker main caps than ANY of the other production ford blocks - pretty similar to the original 1965 era HiPo 289 blocks.
- The early blocks and mexican blocks have blind main bolt holes, reducing the chances of a crack forming, they are slightly thicker under the main cap registers as well.
- head bolt threads of mexican blocks, and the early 289-302 blocks up to '74 or so, are all blind so there is no chance or issues with water leaking, whereas our later model roller blocks are not blind and headbolts must be sealed.
Reasoning specific to my build:
- I have maybe a 150-200k mi stock shortblock it would make sense to drop $1k+ into refreshing when I do the top-emd build, anyways.
- I plan on stepping up to a new combo that I hope will put me right in the danger zone of the accepted 5.0 roller block limit of 500 rwhp.
- I'd rather build another block while mine is still running and getting me to work every day. A motor swap is faster than an engine build.
- Might do better selling my current motor as a package deal when I can confirm it's in good running condition to a potential buyer.
- Already have 2 Dart block projects. Not looking to build another out. Let's keep things cheaper and I'll always be able to find another shortblock if I blow this one up.
I found a mexican block near my parents' home in Ohio for $400. The fella thinks it's still on its original 4.00" bore. I'm worried about the rust, but excited to give it a shot. If that doesn't work out, Michael Bell has one that's already been built for $600.
I also learned that apparently around '74, the mexican blocks added .020" deck height. I'd guess this was a compression drop due to gas era stuff. It would be good for turbo/blower motors on pump gas. But, I'm hoping the block I'm looking at is the earlier version, or that I can find some affordable pistons that will bring compression back to near 11:1, as the extra compression be preferable to me NA, and I dont think it hurts on nitrous.
Would be lovely if the crank and balancer check out too, and then all I need to get are improved rods and pistons.
For those who may find this later, it's hard to beat the info in this thread:
Mexican Block Tech (Comparison Pics)
Ok, there have always been people that thought a mexican block was really no better than a stock block. However, there have been folks that...
www.theturboforums.com
And, though the pics aren't showing up for me now, they may be the ones I reposted here:
Engine - 302 production block selection
The Rub: Well, fellas, I've gotten a top end together that I will swap onto a stock or stockish block, probably this winter. My car's running great, and I'm not in a hurry. So, I figured I'd use the opportunity to try to find a budget-friendly upgrade. I know the mexican and older '60s era...
stangnet.com
The cliff's notes on why a mexican block:
- The #1 issue is keeping the main caps from chattering and walking. Girdles don't fix that, and balancing doesn't either. A rotating assy is balanced at TDC and BDC, but at 90*, the weight still has to be contained by the main cap. When you have a thicker cap and webbing, that obviously helps, and mexican blocks have wider and thicker main caps than ANY of the other production ford blocks - pretty similar to the original 1965 era HiPo 289 blocks.
- The early blocks and mexican blocks have blind main bolt holes, reducing the chances of a crack forming, they are slightly thicker under the main cap registers as well.
- head bolt threads of mexican blocks, and the early 289-302 blocks up to '74 or so, are all blind so there is no chance or issues with water leaking, whereas our later model roller blocks are not blind and headbolts must be sealed.
Reasoning specific to my build:
- I have maybe a 150-200k mi stock shortblock it would make sense to drop $1k+ into refreshing when I do the top-emd build, anyways.
- I plan on stepping up to a new combo that I hope will put me right in the danger zone of the accepted 5.0 roller block limit of 500 rwhp.
- I'd rather build another block while mine is still running and getting me to work every day. A motor swap is faster than an engine build.
- Might do better selling my current motor as a package deal when I can confirm it's in good running condition to a potential buyer.
- Already have 2 Dart block projects. Not looking to build another out. Let's keep things cheaper and I'll always be able to find another shortblock if I blow this one up.
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I had a lot of fun riding along in Black Jack at the school! You did an amazing job out on course!
While I haven't received or cashed the check, Farm Bureau has agreed to the full estimate from Elite + $200 for loss of use, which should come to about $3,700. Edit: they negotiated with Elite a tad and then cut me a check for $3,480.
Incidentally, that's $320 less than I paid for Black Jack 2 years ago. I'm thrilled with how straight forward and easy it was to deal with Farm Bureau.
My intent is to roll the repair into a complete repaint. I don't want a shiny hatch and bumper behind an oxidized car. I'm not in a hurry to do it. So, I'll have a chat with the shop, who seemed reluctant to do more than "spot repair". I'm hoping to get on a shop's calandar and have the whole car done for $7-$10k. If it takes a while, I'll try to find a nice hatch, bumper, & cover in the meantime to avoid paying retail.
Incidentally, that's $320 less than I paid for Black Jack 2 years ago. I'm thrilled with how straight forward and easy it was to deal with Farm Bureau.
My intent is to roll the repair into a complete repaint. I don't want a shiny hatch and bumper behind an oxidized car. I'm not in a hurry to do it. So, I'll have a chat with the shop, who seemed reluctant to do more than "spot repair". I'm hoping to get on a shop's calandar and have the whole car done for $7-$10k. If it takes a while, I'll try to find a nice hatch, bumper, & cover in the meantime to avoid paying retail.
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I'm at Rockingham now. 1st pass was a bust when I tried launching at 5k and bogged. Here's the 2nd pass from the limiter on a 100 shot. It's really a 65 rwhp shot according to the dyno. [email protected].
Car was hot. It's a sticky 92*out. DA is over 2,900 ft.
Right lane was a 2020 GT500. Guy's first time out.
Let's let the air and the car cool down before the next pass:
Car was hot. It's a sticky 92*out. DA is over 2,900 ft.
Right lane was a 2020 GT500. Guy's first time out.
Let's let the air and the car cool down before the next pass:
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Knock knock knockin' on 'leven's doooor,
hey, hey, hey hey yeah!
If I hadn't put that 3-4 lbs bag of ice back in the car, Black Jack would be an 11 sec car, lol.
Seriously, though, the launch felt great and was .08 faster than my best 60' last NA session. The 1/8 was Black Jack's quickest and fastest run ever. Something went wrong on the back half, and I could feel it. Now, the car ran and drove fine afterwards, but the slips validate what I felt. Even though my 1/8 trap speed was faster than the previous run's 89.88, my 1/4 mile was slower... 114.45 final run vs 115.2 on the previous run. wtf? I probably should have let out. Not sure if it was breaking up or maybe I short shifted to 4th and dropped out of the nitrous 3.5k min RPM window. I may pull the plugs, even though I've driven home on em to see what I can see. Maybe tighten them up a bit.
DA at this point was around 2250 ft.
Still, all in all, I was very happy with a [email protected]. In the near future, I'll bump from a 100 to a 125 and then to a 150, so long as the AFRs stay in a good place, and I don't hear detonation.
hey, hey, hey hey yeah!
If I hadn't put that 3-4 lbs bag of ice back in the car, Black Jack would be an 11 sec car, lol.
Seriously, though, the launch felt great and was .08 faster than my best 60' last NA session. The 1/8 was Black Jack's quickest and fastest run ever. Something went wrong on the back half, and I could feel it. Now, the car ran and drove fine afterwards, but the slips validate what I felt. Even though my 1/8 trap speed was faster than the previous run's 89.88, my 1/4 mile was slower... 114.45 final run vs 115.2 on the previous run. wtf? I probably should have let out. Not sure if it was breaking up or maybe I short shifted to 4th and dropped out of the nitrous 3.5k min RPM window. I may pull the plugs, even though I've driven home on em to see what I can see. Maybe tighten them up a bit.
DA at this point was around 2250 ft.
Still, all in all, I was very happy with a [email protected]. In the near future, I'll bump from a 100 to a 125 and then to a 150, so long as the AFRs stay in a good place, and I don't hear detonation.
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11.90’s here we come!!!!Knock knock knockin' on 'leven's doooor,
hey, hey, hey hey yeah!
If I hadn't put that 3-4 lbs bag of ice back in the car, Black Jack would be an 11 sec car, lol.
Seriously, though, the launch felt great and was .08 faster than my best 60' last NA session. The 1/8 was Black Jack's quickest and fastest run ever. Something went wrong on the back half, and I could feel it. Now, the car ran and drove fine afterwards, but the slips validate what I felt. Even though my 1/8 trap speed was faster than the previous run's 89.88, my 1/4 mile was slower... 114.45 final run vs 115.2 on the previous run. wtf? I probably should have let out. Not sure if it was breaking up or maybe I short shifted to 4th and dropped out of the nitrous 3.5k min RPM window. I may pull the plugs, even though I've driven home on em to see what I can see. Maybe tighten them up a bit.
DA at this point was around 2250 ft.
Still, all in all, I was very happy with a [email protected]. In the near future, I'll bump from a 100 to a 125 and then to a 150, so long as the AFRs stay in a good place, and I don't hear detonation.
Blackhawkxx
Active Member
- Mar 3, 2023
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Just a minor point for information, I have a 78 Mustang that I bought new 10/1977 and it has blind head bolt holes.
Yeah, the 74+ blocks until the roller block era are the grey area for me. I understand before 74 is 'early' 302 that has blind head and main bolt holes, along with more webbing. The Mexican is the same as an early block, but also comes with the same main caps that came on the 289 HiPo, which I'm not sure are really any better, but they definitely aren't worse. Some say Mexican blocks have tougher 'nickel' metal, and others say their metal sucked compared to USA-made early blocks. I think 74 itself is considered early, but might be a transition year. Thanks for clarifying about the 77. I don't know why they're less preferred. I just know they are.
Guys, after almost 2 years of fiddle-f*$^#ing around with the LMR door locks, I noticed someone on FB mention the same problem and that they had much better luck with dorman actuators. They were right! I just got done installing the Dormans and it's night and day. Happy to have functional door locks again. I bought a small stock of them, because if Dorman ever stops making 'em, I want enough to last me a long time. Went ahead and did the window bushings and greased everything up again while I was in there.
It's about the only good part Dorman makes. Once in a while they get it right.
I got one from LMR and it ended up in the trash. Im actually surprised they arent reboxing Dorman's to begin with?
I got one from LMR and it ended up in the trash. Im actually surprised they arent reboxing Dorman's to begin with?
I can't believe they have 4-stars on, LMR. Some people are saying the same stuff, but who are those things working for? Hopefully, my review will bring it down another peg.
This is good to know, years ago I did my window motors and door lock actuators with parts from LMR, probably like 2014 or so... I'm sure I'll need new ones when it comes time to put my doors back together so I'll try to remember to get the Dorman ones for the locks. Any word on the window motors? I thought the LMR ones were ok on that but if there's a better option I'd love to know.
One of blackjack's window motors was seized up when I bought it back. However, after just dinking around with itit started working again and has been working since. I do have one of lmr's window motors in a box, but I've never used it.
@jrichker always recommended rebuilding the OEM units. There's a sticky in the Technical Thread Index (that I'm going to verify is still there after I get done typing this).
No worries. The instructions that I recall were about retro fitting the locks with a different one.
I dug it up and placed it here: https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/door-lock-actuator-replacement-retrofit.927898/
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