Black Jack: No TnT, but installed Zeitronix dual wideband

[FastDriver]

Post in thread 'Black Jack: No TnT, but installed Zeitronix dual wideband' https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/884727/post-9410870

So, that was my fastest 1/4 on a 100 shot with an iced intake, which was good for maybe 1mph that day in the 1/8, but was actually a tad slower than earlier in the day than my best 115mph trap speed. I was doing better driving that day than I did after a year without practice at foxtoberfest. I'm happy with the pick up in trap speed, but honestly, it's not that great for what should be a 50hp pickup.

Anyways, the 92.8 in my recent foxtoberfest runs converts to may 117mph in the 1/4, though the ET would not have been an improvement over the 12.02, IMO.

 

[rednotch]

For me, the loop is further back, and also, just an observation, the directions indicate that his bottom part of the loop is inverted, as they call for the bend to push up into the DS tunnel. But anyways, about 4" further bakc, I'd guess is where the T56 wants it to be mounted.

yeah the bottom part actual copys the contour of the pan in that section so his is upside down, A copy of a copy of a copy of the hpm loop so probably made in China now lol. I didn't realize the t56 was that much longer.

 

[rednotch]

you have this in the old 100shot post you linked, "Edit: Note to self: This was run on the 125 fuel pill with the 100 n2o pill"

the jetting I can find for the kit you listed would put that at 46/34 where it calls for a 46/30 on there "100" shot,
there 125 is 54/34 for that kit no other jetting listed above it. Kit should have come with. 026" .030" .034" .040" .046 ".054
Only kits I can find listing a .067 as a 150 shot Is using a .038 fuel jet and is there high output wet kits that uses better individual selonids not in a control box. Edelbrock groups has made a mess of that brand and many others though so info isn't the easiest to find and may not be current, pulled the jetting from Jegs old PDF instructions on it

This run was .067 on the nitrous side with a .032 fuel. thats a decent jump in rasing the nitrous and lowering the fuel from the "100" shot, the 100 shots fuel jet was larger than what your currently using from your note in the post. I expect the 54 jet is about the limits those selonids will flow and your 100 shot jetting pass should have been pretty rich, you might want to try there 125 shot jetting with .054/ .034, and if you have all the listed jets it came with plus a .032 you can test it with the .032 and .030 on the fuel side, I bet it picks up the more fuel jet you drop. Your all ready using a smaller fuel jet with a much larger .067 which will flow enough for about 170hp gain when its the limiting factor. Just bring fresh plugs and read the timing strap and fuel ring after a pass. its a hassle but only real way you can dial nitrous in, and you would be suprised how much you can pick up doing so. .052 nitrous jet is almost always good for at least 10mph gain over na trap speed in the 1/4 once its dialed in, in my experience on these types of combos. So there "125" shot cleaned up should be able to better the current jetting your using and should be within the limits of the selonids.

 

[nicholase]

Good info. I'll keep that in mind if I run into anything with 'em. Don't suppose you have the part numbers for the 3' leads and whatever you used for a timer? I'm happy to wait until there's a verified problem, but it'll put my mind at ease that there's already a known solution if I do run into that, too.

The shorter leads are available at Zeitronix.com---> order---> scroll to bottom where seperate cables are listed---> select drop down option for your cable length..(3',10', 20')

As for the wideband power up delay, my engine management looks for RPM and won't send power to the wideband controllers until RPM exceeds about 250 RPM. So i don't get any power to the wideband controller with just the key on. I dont recall what you are using for tuning. Maybe you have an extra configurable output to use that could be tied to RPM signal, or oil pressure. If not i did have a really slick oil preasure switched setup before I went to a stand alone. The info and parts #s are in post #11. I used a pressure safety switch to ground switch the wideband relay.
https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums...motiv8-engine-management.928171/#post-9415452

 

[85GTStangGuy]

All you do is remind me just how lazy I am.

That's why FastDriver called you from Foxtoberfest (well, the hotel bar actually, but still).... to motivate ya.

Did it work? Are you exuding motivation everywhere now?

If not, further drunk calls may be in order. Just trying to help....

 

[FastDriver]

@nicholase
Thank you!

 

[FastDriver]

you have this in the old 100shot post you linked, "Edit: Note to self: This was run on the 125 fuel pill with the 100 n2o pill"

the jetting I can find for the kit you listed would put that at 46/34 where it calls for a 46/30 on there "100" shot,
there 125 is 54/34 for that kit no other jetting listed above it. Kit should have come with. 026" .030" .034" .040" .046 ".054
Only kits I can find listing a .067 as a 150 shot Is using a .038 fuel jet and is there high output wet kits that uses better individual selonids not in a control box. Edelbrock groups has made a mess of that brand and many others though so info isn't the easiest to find and may not be current, pulled the jetting from Jegs old PDF instructions on it

This run was .067 on the nitrous side with a .032 fuel. thats a decent jump in rasing the nitrous and lowering the fuel from the "100" shot, the 100 shots fuel jet was larger than what your currently using from your note in the post. I expect the 54 jet is about the limits those selonids will flow and your 100 shot jetting pass should have been pretty rich, you might want to try there 125 shot jetting with .054/ .034, and if you have all the listed jets it came with plus a .032 you can test it with the .032 and .030 on the fuel side, I bet it picks up the more fuel jet you drop. Your all ready using a smaller fuel jet with a much larger .067 which will flow enough for about 170hp gain when its the limiting factor. Just bring fresh plugs and read the timing strap and fuel ring after a pass. its a hassle but only real way you can dial nitrous in, and you would be suprised how much you can pick up doing so. .052 nitrous jet is almost always good for at least 10mph gain over na trap speed in the 1/4 once its dialed in, in my experience on these types of combos. So there "125" shot cleaned up should be able to better the current jetting your using and should be within the limits of the selonids.

After driving around with the dual wideband for the last couple of days, I've discovered that the driver's side bank, which I've been tuning from, consistently runs about 0.3–0.5 AFR richer than the passenger side. The difference is most noticeable under load and at WOT, and much smaller at cruise and idle, presumably because the ECU's fuel trims help even things out.

I'd deliberately tuned the NA WOT AFR to a conservative 12.5–12.6 on the driver's side, but now I see the passenger side is closer to 13.0, which I'm comfortable with naturally aspirated. I'm glad I erred on the rich side.

I haven't made another WOT nitrous pull since installing the dual wideband, though, and our discussion has made me realize I may have been running with less safety margin than I thought.

You're right that I was using jet charts from other kits to estimate my starting point. I originally tried the .038 fuel jet with the .067 nitrous jet, but AFRs were in the 10s, so I progressively leaned it down to .032.

Given what I've learned about the bank-to-bank difference, I'm going back to the .034 fuel jet before making another nitrous pass. I've already run that combination without apparent issues, and it should give me a little more margin while I see what the passenger bank is doing. I'd still like to target around 11.5:1 and get the fueling sorted out before experimenting with timing.

There's another test-and-tune this Friday that I'm planning to attend. I don't have any other work planned on the car, so hopefully I'll get some useful data to share.

 

[Bullitt347]

Wouldn't hurt to look at the spark plugs after a hit at the track.
That will tell you what is happening in the cylinder.
The WB only tells you what is in the exhaust after the fact.

 

[rednotch]

After driving around with the dual wideband for the last couple of days, I've discovered that the driver's side bank, which I've been tuning from, consistently runs about 0.3–0.5 AFR richer than the passenger side. The difference is most noticeable under load and at WOT, and much smaller at cruise and idle, presumably because the ECU's fuel trims help even things out.

I'd deliberately tuned the NA WOT AFR to a conservative 12.5–12.6 on the driver's side, but now I see the passenger side is closer to 13.0, which I'm comfortable with naturally aspirated. I'm glad I erred on the rich side.

I haven't made another WOT nitrous pull since installing the dual wideband, though, and our discussion has made me realize I may have been running with less safety margin than I thought.

You're right that I was using jet charts from other kits to estimate my starting point. I originally tried the .038 fuel jet with the .067 nitrous jet, but AFRs were in the 10s, so I progressively leaned it down to .032.

Given what I've learned about the bank-to-bank difference, I'm going back to the .034 fuel jet before making another nitrous pass. I've already run that combination without apparent issues, and it should give me a little more margin while I see what the passenger bank is doing. I'd still like to target around 11.5:1 and get the fueling sorted out before experimenting with timing.

There's another test-and-tune this Friday that I'm planning to attend. I don't have any other work planned on the car, so hopefully I'll get some useful data to share.

This is what Monte Smith always suggested, RIP. Just to show I'm not suggesting anything wild, though the majority of ppl with bolt nitrous kits run them way richer than needed, as thats how there jetted when sold. third reply down . https://www.yellowbullet.com/thread...1239138/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic.

"As a general rule........wherever the motor makes best power N/A is also where it will make best power on the hose. It's the same motor and the same parts, it is just making more power, more efficiently on the nitrous. No reason that the A/F would need to be much if any different.

On our 738 with 4 kits........we run to a target number of 12.9.........that's where it runs the best. Your mileage may vary.........LOL!!!

Monte".


Your .067, jet even if extremely rich, isn't showing the gains of what a .067 jet can flow, my main thought is the zex selonids can't flow the full potential of that jet. most efi single nozzle kits use a .062 as there "150 hp jet" The gains you've all ready seen as shown by old dyno numbers and mph at the track can be achieved and bettered on the 54 nitrous jet which is what the kit came with. I honestly would start with that if you want reliable data to tune off of with what you currently have. Afr gauges are nice for tracking and tuning, but plugs don't lie. Nitrous isn't forced induction, it doesnt needs a richer afr for a cooling affect at all, its on/off after a pass.