Blew A Darn Head Gasket Already!

skiwesser11 · Jun 19, 2012

Only spraying a 60 wet shot, one nozzel. Pretty sure I held it too long in forth trying to run down a turbo civic (embarassing as that is)

Any way melted the AFR 165 head to where it had to be welded it got hot for seeing 6000 in 4th with gas on (in my defense I forgot about the nitrous being on, I rarely use it. But still a 60 shot??!!)

So turns out I used the cheap fel pro's??
So I'm putting Cometic's on it, I'm fighting the urge to put another cam in it as the TF #1 is VERY streetable, thats what I want but it still falls on it's face at 5300-5400rpm, like the stock cam did at 5000

Any advice on a cam for my engine? (details in sig)
I like the trick flow, so I'm thinking about they're #2 cam.
#1= 221/225 @.050 .499/.510 with 1.6
#2= 224/232 "" .542/.563 ''''
both at 112 seperation. Anyone got any experience with these?

How much driveability you guys think I'll lose?
Any help appriecated!!

Noobz347 · Jun 19, 2012

Your problem is not about how long you sprayed. The problem is with your mixture.

What's your AFR or EGT when you're on the spray?

2000xp8 · Jun 19, 2012

Agreed, your problem was not the 4th gear run, nor is it the head gasket.
Improper installation of something probably caused it.
You do not need cometic head gaskets for 300hp and a 60shot.

Your combination of parts is confusing at best.
You have the best set of heads available, a mediocre cam, horrible meter and intake, then $700 worth of nitrous parts, to spray 60hp?

My advice, sell the nitrous, buy a better intake, definitely a better meter and you will make more power NA than you are spraying 60hp and that's hp you get all the time, not just on $40 nitrous fill ups.
I bet you could sell off your parts and get quality parts without spending a dime.

You are choking those heads with that intake and meter.

skiwesser11 · Jun 20, 2012

Ok, well I used to spray the crap out of old motor so that's why it's there.

Is the C&L that bad? That's the first I've heard that said, the intake I got cheap, it's ported to match heads, so I figured it's better than a cobra, at least as good as the E Brock performer that it's a chinese copy of?

Motor makes 350ish so it's up there with Trick flows kit : same cam, TW heads, they're street intake. advertised to make 350 flywheel hp, so how much more you think I can gain? Had it making 288 baseline at wheels b4 dyno tune?

Thanks

skiwesser11 · Jun 20, 2012

It was professionally tuned but it's tuned pretty lean, the guy told me not to spray it until he tuned for nitrous, but I thought I could get away with such a small shot. AFR on dyno

was 14:1 until 3300rpm where it gradually goes to 12.5:1 by4300-4500rpm. The motor has about 9000 miles on it and has always ran great, especially since the tune which was

done early on, I think the guy said I could'nt just retard timing because chip would correct it? I figure maybe he's just wanting to sell the nitrous tune as the chip is switchable. In

future I think I'll just pull chip before I play with the gas

2000xp8 · Jun 20, 2012

The c&l really is that bad, do some searches many people have issues with them, besides it's way undersized, replace it with an 80mm or bigger pro m or pmas meter and an edelbrock rpm II intake.
300rwhp with afr heads is still pretty low, i personally wouldn't be happy with anything under 325rwhp.
You have the main ingredient for an awesome setup, i wouldn't be pulling off mediocre parts and putting them back on a second time.

As for the cam, i'm a believer in custom only.

Economize with the best, because doing things twice cost more than doing it right the first time.

f8tlfiveo · Jun 20, 2012

You should have your timing set to 10 degrees for your baseline..then you change timing in the tune.. Not from distributor.

Noobz347 · Jun 20, 2012

14:1 AFR is too lean for ANY rpm on spray.

fiveohwblow · Jun 20, 2012

C&L meters are the best you can get. Utilizing the factory electronics which were specifically designed for the car is best. I don't think an 80mm would hurt you though.

Was your dyno a dyno jet or mustang dyno?

Noobz347 · Jun 20, 2012

C&L meters that use the replaceable sample tubes are the one of the worst meters ever invented.

Lately they've designed some better housings that don't use that method and there have been more good reviews than bad ones.

f8tlfiveo · Jun 21, 2012

fiveohwblow said:
C&L meters are the best you can get. Utilizing the factory electronics which were specifically designed for the car is best.

I do not agree..

fiveohwblow · Jun 21, 2012

I knew id get hate. The factory meters work good.... C&l utilizes the factory electronics. Do your homework fellas. The factory electronics are far beyond what pro m or why of the other manufacturers use.

Also, most major tuners prefer c&l. Know why that is?

f8tlfiveo · Jun 21, 2012

You can have your opinion.. I just do not agree.. No problem..

skiwesser11 · Jun 21, 2012

Thanks for input everyone, I am not sure if it was a "mustang dyno" but I believe it was, thats mostly what they most tune is my understanding, however it's been about 5-6 years ago now. Car had a bad ground in harness that took about a year to find so that's kinda why I'm just now experimenting with the nitrous on this motor. I'm leaving the cam, doing some more research on C&L meter, I know I got it because it's less expensive than the pro-M 77, but I've never had a problem with it or felt it was a restriction but I'm no expert by far. also I still run a 65mm TB as I was told it was big enough for 400-450 hp. Is that about right?

2000xp8 · Jun 21, 2012

fiveohwblow said:
Also, most major tuners prefer c&l.

I do not know a single tuner that likes them.

The stock electronics are great, on STOCK meters.
C&L's are unpredictable at best, god forbid you turn it the wrong way.

Pro M/pmas have had their hands in programming the meters for ford over the years, so if the guys that helped develop the ford sensors you love so much think it's better to use a calibrated meter, i tend to agree with them.

fiveohwblow · Jun 21, 2012

2000xp8 said:
I do not know a single tuner that likes them.

The stock electronics are great, on STOCK meters.
C&L's are unpredictable at best, god forbid you turn it the wrong way.

Pro M/pmas have had their hands in programming the meters for ford over the years, so if the guys that helped develop the ford sensors you love so much think it's better to use a calibrated meter, i tend to agree with them.

Every single tuner that I have contacted and have had tune my car did

VibrantRedGT · Jun 21, 2012

Who tunes a car to be lean on purpose? I wouldn't take it back to that tuner ever. You should have listened, you're running lean already and then sprayed. That's why it melted. Rich is always safer.

I had C&L meters and switch to a Pro-M 80MM, what a difference. I'll never buy a C&L meter again.

skiwesser11 · Jun 21, 2012

Yes well I never said it wasn't stupid lol...... But I hadn't looked at dyno sheet for a few years, now that I see how lean it is I wouldn't have done it.
lesson learned!

Now, about the C&L, it flows plenty so it has inferior electronics? To what do you attibute the difference after the swap?

It doesnt have the changable sample tubes I'm pretty sure (looks made in to me?) Would it not run well if the signal was screwy?

2000xp8 · Jun 21, 2012

skiwesser11 said:
Yes well I never said it wasn't stupid lol...... But I hadn't looked at dyno sheet for a few years, now that I see how lean it is I wouldn't have done it.
lesson learned!

Now, about the C&L, it flows plenty so it has inferior electronics? To what do you attibute the difference after the swap?

It doesnt have the changable sample tubes I'm pretty sure (looks made in to me?) Would it not run well if the signal was screwy?

It doesn't flow plenty, it's too small. Anything in front of the TB is a restriction.

The electronics on a foxbody c&l are stock mustang electronics. The sampling tube inside attempts to readjust for the larger than stock meter size. Needless to say it does a poor job. Car doesn't have to run screwy to not run as well as it can.

IMO, pull your chip out and handle your own timing.

f8tlfiveo · Jun 21, 2012

2000xp8 said:
I do not know a single tuner that likes them.

The stock electronics are great, on STOCK meters.
C&L's are unpredictable at best, god forbid you turn it the wrong way.

Lol... Very true..

Blew A Darn Head Gasket Already!

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