Bought 5.0 - Questions about retrofit

Oldbutspry · Mar 13, 2006

I posted this over in the 5.0 section but then l realized it's more appropriate in this section because a lot of you guys are doing the same thing - putting a 5.0 in an older car....

I bought a '91 motor from a coworker. I'm going to put a carb, front sump pan and V-belt system on it. I am looking at buying a 1963-1982 gasket set but I'm wondering if the timing cover gasket will work (I'm using a '91 timing cover and don't want to change covers because this one has already been machined for the gear drive clearance.). Do the different timing covers require different gaskets? Are there any other gaskets I may have trouble with?

Later I plan on switching over to serpentine but it's just too much of a pain right now getting the brackets, pulleys, pump, radiator, etc.

Also, where can I buy an oil slinger? I looked on ebay and didn't see any there.

Thanks,

Oldbutspry

302 coupe · Mar 14, 2006

I think you have to switch timing covers to run a standard rotation V-belt style water pump. Gear drives are a headache and soak up horsepower anyway.

Hack · Mar 14, 2006

The original oil dip stick is in the side of the block, and it won't work with a front sump oil pan. When I did the swap into my '70 last summer, I found a junkyard timing cover so that I could convert to put the oil dip stick in the front where it belongs with a front sump oil pan. Then I tapped and put a plug in the old location.

If you buy gaskets at a local parts store, the box comes with a few extra gaskets to fit different versions of the parts. You can just match it up.

I recommend writing down every part you use in the engine and what year, etc it came from just in case you need to remember it in the future.

For an oil slinger, you might go to a u pull it type of junkyard and grab one off an older 302. That's where I got the eccentric for running a mechanical fuel pump. I just pulled it off an older pickup (along with the timing cover).

I would stick with serpentine if I were you. It's worth the extra time in my opinion. Whatever you do, make sure you get the correct water pump for your choice (serpentine = reverse flow).

5.0ina66 · Mar 14, 2006

If the timing cover has the provision for a mech. fuel pump, but it's blocked off, it'll also have a cast-in spot to drill for the front-mount dipstick. The 5.0 cover will work with a STD rotation, pass. side waterpump (they made LTDs setup that way with the same 5.0 cover)

All that said, supposedly they changed the cover in 1989 or 1990, to eliminate both provisions, but I'm skeptical about that myself.

The best solution to the b-mount dipstick hole I've seen is a 1/8" NPT plug, or a 1/8" freeze plug. I think I'm going with the freeze plug route so I can drop this motor in a Fox if I ever want to do that.
HTH
--Kyle
PS: Serpentine not = reverse flow. I have/had most of an '87 LTD std. rotation serpentine setup (I think somebody tossed it in the trash though )

Tubo(2-bo) · Mar 14, 2006

The oil dip stick relocation isnt really a problem, easy enough to do on a 90's timing cover. The same cover will not accomodate a mechanical fuel pump though, as a different mounting boss is used.
As far as a V belt system, I kept the serpentine system & changed the undersized radiator to an aluminum cross flow 26" wide, no more cooling probs.

5.0ina66 · Mar 14, 2006

Tubo3 said:
The same cover will not accomodate a mechanical fuel pump though, as a different mounting boss is used.

Why's that? My '87 cover has spots for both; did they change it in '90?

LMan · Mar 14, 2006

Dont kill yourself looking for an oil slinger, its definitely an 'optional' item.

Oldbutspry · Mar 14, 2006

A slinger isn't really necessary? I'm just following along in my "rebuild your 289/302" book. If anybody has the serpentine stuff they'll sell for a reasonable price I'm interested. But I already have to get the clutch/bellhousing/yoke/shortened driveshaft/cable/quadrant/etc. Things can get out of hand if you let them. If I switch to serpentine do I need to change alternators and power steering pump as well?

I just bought a long block/trans so I don't have the old accessories that were on the engine.

Hack · Mar 14, 2006

My first engine rebuild was the 250 straight six that was OE on my '70. I forgot to put the oil slinger in.

It only took two years before the front main seal started leaking.

I would put the slinger in, especially if you want to have a decent looking motor over the long term.

Oldbutspry · Mar 14, 2006

Ok, I'll definitely want to find a slinger then (along with a million other parts).

D.Hearne · Mar 14, 2006

5.0ina66 said:
If the timing cover has the provision for a mech. fuel pump, but it's blocked off, it'll also have a cast-in spot to drill for the front-mount dipstick. The 5.0 cover will work with a STD rotation, pass. side waterpump (they made LTDs setup that way with the same 5.0 cover)

All that said, supposedly they changed the cover in 1989 or 1990, to eliminate both provisions, but I'm skeptical about that myself.

The best solution to the b-mount dipstick hole I've seen is a 1/8" NPT plug, or a 1/8" freeze plug. I think I'm going with the freeze plug route so I can drop this motor in a Fox if I ever want to do that.
HTH
--Kyle
PS: Serpentine not = reverse flow. I have/had most of an '87 LTD std. rotation serpentine setup (I think somebody tossed it in the trash though )

SOME of the timing covers mate with reverse flow pumps, but not all. The later 80's style cover has the coolant ports reversed as well. The later pumps will bolt to either, but you'll have a massive leak if you try to run it. The late 80's Crown Vic setup is std rotation with a dual serpentine style belt. One belt runs the W/P, Alternator and P/S, the other runs the smog pump and A/C. This setup works great if you want to forego the A/C and use the whole right side of the engine for a turbo, supercharger, extra alternator, or any other concieveable accessory.

Oldbutspry · Mar 14, 2006

The guy I got the motor/tranny from is supposed to be taking inventory of the other parts he has so he can give me a price on them. He's got a Procharger, couple of intercoolers, GT40 intakes, 42 lb. injectors, etc. He bought the stuff years ago so he can't remember everything. If I buy the other stuff then I suppose I'll have to go serpentine.

My first priority is to get everything together enough to set the engine and trans in the car. I got the oil pan, bolt set and gasket set ordered. Next most important is the tranny items and oil slinger (so I can attach the timing cover).

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to have more questions later I'm sure.

65ShelbyClone · Mar 15, 2006

I believe the reason the later engines did not have a crank slinger is because the timing cover is located on dowel sleeves much like the heads. That way it eliminated the possibility of the front cover shifting when the bolts get tightened and you don't need to install the damper just to keep the cover straight. I think the post-'65 or '66 timing covers also had a small deflector cast above the crank snout also.

That little stamped slinger seems to one of those parts that everyone either needs or swears that their problems were caused by not using one(when realy it could have been 100 other things).

Bleh, just my .02

D.Hearne · Mar 15, 2006

I also agree on the slinger, you don't need it. I don't have em on either of the small blocks I have at the moment.

5.0ina66 · Mar 15, 2006

D.Hearne said:
SOME of the timing covers mate with reverse flow pumps, but not all. The later 80's style cover has the coolant ports reversed as well.

I see...I was referring to using an early waterpump on a 5.0 cover but I suppose that would have problems as well? Didn't know that about the LTD setup (never saw all of it LOL), thanks for the info.

Hack · Mar 15, 2006

D.Hearne said:
SOME of the timing covers mate with reverse flow pumps, but not all. The later 80's style cover has the coolant ports reversed as well. The later pumps will bolt to either, but you'll have a massive leak if you try to run it.

So now I'm worrying about whether mine will work properly. How can I tell if it won't work? I remember looking at it and thinking that everything was fine, but you never know...

I have everything together and the system is full of coolant, but I haven't gotten spark yet. If it's going to leak, should it be leaking now? Massive makes me think yes..?..

65ShelbyClone · Mar 15, 2006

If everything lines up, then yeah, it fits.

I personally just used a '70s timing cover(D4 or D8, I forget) and a stock replacement water pump. The '85 GT Duraspark distributor(steel gear for roller cam) was probably the hardest part to track down.

WORTH · Mar 15, 2006

FYI, try this to identify if you can use your present cover. And they all take the same gasket set.

D.Hearne · Mar 15, 2006

Where'd you find that chart, Worth? Good to have. I've got a pic buried in "My Pictures" in my computer that I took myself that shows the 70's cover, an 80's reverse flow, and an Explorer/Mountaineer/94-95 Stang cover plus one other ( I forget). To make things more complicated, there's umpteen dozen waterpump variations to go with the covers. Most applications had std flow, high volume, and high performance(low flow/high rpm) pumps and many are available at your local parts house, you just have to shop and learn to study the parts books. The difference in flow is done by changing the impelller diameter.

Bought 5.0 - Questions about retrofit

Oldbutspry

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302 coupe

Hack

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Tubo(2-bo)

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LMan

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Hack

Oldbutspry

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