Brake kits shootout

raymond.wong · Feb 7, 2004

hi
I'm currently running cobra PBR front and GT rears. I am able to smoke the front brakes during OT. My car is daily driver and OT 5 times/yr. Clearence is not an issue since I run 2000 cobra r wheels 18x9.5
I would like to hear the opinions of the following kits.

Cobra PBR 2 pistons 38mm/38m rotor size 13"x1.1"=$500

VS

StopTech 4 pistons 36mm/40mm rotor size 13"x1.25"=$2000 (stiffest caliper design of the bunch)

Cobra Brembo 4 pistons 36mm/40mm rotor size 13"x1.25"=$1100 (Brembo=Porsche)

Alcon 4 pistons 38mm/40.5mm rotor size 13"x0.810"=$1600 (Look more beefy than Brembo)

Baer New Corvette Caliper on mustang 2 pistons 40mm/40mm rotor size 13"x1.1"=$800 (Baer claims that it would make a night and day difference compared with my Cobra PBR)

Wilwood 6 pistons =$1600 (not street friendly because of the pistons seal)

Problems : They all have similar brake torque to me by measuring their piston areas multiply by the radius of the rotor. The main difference is their heat capacity, caliper stiffnest and brake feel and modulation.

What do you guys think on these kits especially the Corvette kits (worth to upgrade).

Thank you for the time.

TheUser · Feb 7, 2004

i don't know dude...if you need brakes that good...that's really a personal choice. I know you need good brakes if you're gonna have a fast car and all that stuff and I agree 100% because the brakes can make a difference in you dying or not, but $1000-2000 for brake kits I think is kinda crazy...just me

stangbear427 · Feb 7, 2004

pm Matt90GT. He'll know. I'd like to know myself... I'm looking at the Force10 kits.

91BlckGT · Feb 7, 2004

I asked a lot of these questions before finding picking the Brembo kit for the front, and the Baer kit in the rear. Best compromise between cost and performance.

If money is no object, go for the stoptech. Avoid wilwood and SSBC for OT. They're fine for the street, but flex too much for the track (courtsey of corner-carvers, not my own experience).

I can't comment on the Corvette caliper, having not seen it in action. I didn't even know it existed until SEMA>

THe C5 has been out a long time. Why did Baer take so long to put it out?

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 7, 2004

How about a bigger rear caliper, and vented rotor... Maybe Cobra rear calipers? If your OTing, you should really have vented rotors in the rear. JMO...

leakyfaucet · Feb 7, 2004

newbie question: what does OT stand for?

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 7, 2004

In this case, Open Track (ie. Watkins Glen, etc..)

JaysGreenLX · Feb 7, 2004

If I am not mistaken the Corvette calipers in very similar to the 99+ GT PBR calipers. Except the corvette ones work on a larger rotor. The GT PBR is said to have better clamping power than the Cobra PBR due to the larger piston diameter, but it is hampered by the smaller rotor diameter. I don't know the prices of the Corvette kit but it would seem that it would be a little more economical and daily driver friendly than a Brembo or StopTech kit. However, I think that the braking performance would be much better with the Brembo, Alcon, or StopTech than it would with the Corvette kit.

BlackFox makes a good point about the rears. Why not step up to a larger rear rotor with the Cobra rear kit? Or maybe if money isn't a concern go with some from Brembo or the like.

raymond.wong · Feb 7, 2004

ttt
My main corcern is They all provide same brake torque with different width of the rotors. But why baer said Corvette calipers would make a night and day difference compared to Cobra PBR.
Stoptech use same pistons size as Cobra PBR and Brembo, but $1000 more.

Matt90gt please come in and give some opinions.

Stoptech claimed they size their calipers to each individual car. since their pistons size same as PBR and Brembo, I'd think my brake is balanced .

Is this true.

331 cobra · Feb 8, 2004

If you are racing it, go for the lightest rotor. The alcon is thinnest, so that would be my guess.

Also, just to clarify, the problem you are experiencing is brake fade, right?

The best way to stop brake fade is to reduce the weight of the car, next, increase corner speed so you don't have to brake as much. Brake ducts and better pads might help by keeping the heat out of your brake fluid.

Also, Brembo does not = Porsche. Brembo is an italian company. They may do buisness with porsche, but they are in no way related beyond that.

Matt90GT · Feb 8, 2004

Which Corvette calipers? The new C5 calipers are WAY different than any mustang PBR calipers.

Check with http://www.corner-carvers.com for more people with real world OT experience with the different kits.

Right now, the stop tech with the HUGE mono block caliper is what the AIX cars are winning on.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 8, 2004

raymond.wong said:
Baer New Corvette Caliper on mustang 2 pistons 40mm/40mm rotor size 13"x1.1"=$800 (Baer claims that it would make a night and day difference compared with my Cobra PBR)

Correct me if i am wrong, but aren't these the 99-04 Cobra front brakes basically? 13" x 1.1" is the same dimension of the 99+ Cobra rotor and the New Cobra calipers are 40mm/40mm. Corvette, Ford, and Baer all get their calipers made by PBR. I can't imagine these giving you THAT much of an increase over the 94-98 38mm cobra calipers. Of course, the 94-98 Cobra rotors are junk and the Brembo 99-04 Cobra rotors are way better.

I am not sure if these rotors are the same kits that i see all the time for $399 from different vendors. I know some of them use the better 99-04 Brembo rotors, but not sure if the calipers are the 38mm or 40mm pistons. If they are the 40's, then you can save the $400 it would cost extra to have the word BAER written on them. I don't know why Baer is telling you it would make a night and day difference. It's the same basic brakes...but 2mm bigger.

What front rotors are you using exactly? I know the 99-04 spec brembo rotors are a bit better quality then the 94-98 ones. Also, like Blackfox5.0 said, look into upgrading the solid rear rotors to the larger vented Cobra 11.65" rear setup.

raymond.wong · Feb 8, 2004

I did call Baer and ask them about their new kits shown in the magazine. They said the calipers are exactly the Corvette C5 calipers with Baer logo.
The rotor size is same as Cobra sppecs 13"x1.1". I was also told that the pistons size are 40mm/40mm. My PBR Cobra is 38mm/38mm.
The kits are made to order and take 3-4 weeks. Price is $800 including all hardwares.
My corncern is that my brake system is already front biased (Cobra PBR and GT rear). i was thinking putting an adjustable PV to dial in more rear brakes.

However, when I called Stoptech, they said the front kits is the same for both Cobra and GT which means I dont need to upgrade the rears to Cobra brakes.

Most importantly, stoptech uses same piston size as other kits (Brembo, Cobra PBR) which implies that Brembo and Cobra brakes are balanced system.

Guys I'm confused.

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 8, 2004

raymond.wong said:
The rotor size is same as Cobra sppecs 13"x1.1". I was also told that the pistons size are 40mm/40mm. My PBR Cobra is 38mm/38mm.

You have '94-98 Cobra Front calipers, which are 38mm/38mm, the '99-'03 Cobra calipers are 40mm/40mm....with the same size calipers, and rotors as the Baer kit, what would be the point of going Baer? Get your rear discs done with an adjustable PV first, and get some weight off the front end.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 8, 2004

raymond.wong said:
I did call Baer and ask them about their new kits shown in the magazine. They said the calipers are exactly the Corvette C5 calipers with Baer logo.
The rotor size is same as Cobra sppecs 13"x1.1". I was also told that the pistons size are 40mm/40mm. My PBR Cobra is 38mm/38mm.
The kits are made to order and take 3-4 weeks. Price is $800 including all hardwares.
My corncern is that my brake system is already front biased (Cobra PBR and GT rear). i was thinking putting an adjustable PV to dial in more rear brakes.

Well, of course Baer is gonna make their kit seem like gold. The Corvette C5 calipers are "almost" the same style PBR's as on the 99-04 Cobra. They may appear slightly different (slots instead of circles on the mounting face) and have different mount points, but they are still made by PBR and are pretty much the same thing as the 99-04 Cobra calipers in regaurds that they are twin piston 40x40 calipers.

Lots of companies do this. Take the 99-04 GT/V6 calipers. Every look at other makes of vehicles and notice that sometimes they have calipers which look identical to the V6/GT caliper? That's because they are the same basic design just modified to fit that vehicles mounting hard points.

PBR makes the calipers for Corvette and the Cobra. They have one simple design and modify each to fit the makers requirments of hard point mounting. DO you see what i am trying to get at?

Instead of wasting $800 to get some corvette calipers with the BAER name on them retrofitted to work on a Mustang, you could just purchase two 99-04 Cobra Calipers that are the SAME thing basically and made to work directly.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 8, 2004

raymond.wong said:
My corncern is that my brake system is already front biased (Cobra PBR and GT rear). i was thinking putting an adjustable PV to dial in more rear brakes.

However, when I called Stoptech, they said the front kits is the same for both Cobra and GT which means I dont need to upgrade the rears to Cobra brakes.

.

Does your '95 have ABS? If so then the ABS usually takes care of slight adjustments. If you don't have ABS, look into gutting the stock prop valve and using a WIlwood adjustable units. This sort of mod is automatic in a Fox, but i'm not so quite sure with the SN95 with ABS and such.

We mentioned upgrading the rear because vented rotors tend to warp less than solids. You said however that your problem was smoking the fronts. What parts exactly are you using for front brakes (rotor brand and pad brand)

raymond.wong · Feb 8, 2004

I was using crossdrilled slotted rotors and SBS pads both from Baer and HPS at the rears. I swiched from HP+ to SBS because 5.0 magazine did a brake pads comparison, and SBS ,which is carried by BAER ,came out the best results . However, HP+ seemed to me had more of initial bite . Besides the squeak from HP+, I'd not change to SBS.

I cracked the holes on the rotors during OT and now the brake started squeaking like HP+ when coming to stop.

Should I replace the rotors and the pads altogether or just the rotors alone. The SBS pads still have half materials.

Anyway, I will stay away from the crossdrilling gimmick.

I do have ABS, I can trigger the front ABS but not the rear's ,no matter how hard I hit the pedal.

I have a porky Y2K R 18x9.5 rims with 275/35/18 out back which is more than 57lbs a piece . the rear brakes might not have enough clamping force to lock the rears. Correct?

By the way, I noticed that the front right rotors and pads worn out faster than the left.

I need to rebuild the caliper on that side or I have suspension problem?

The car sometimes get dragged to one side when it comes to stop.

Thanks everybody for the time

Matt90GT · Feb 8, 2004

Call MM or Griggs. They will help you make your decision as they both sponsor and sell parts for the majority of the AI AIX cars.

For the c5 vette calipers, they are not the same as the cobras. The cobras have the holes cause that is how the caliper is retained to the car. You remove the holes or pads and the caliper will fall off the car.

The c5s have the slots which means it is like the GT PBR calipers with use the slide pins. I would say the GT PBRs are closer in design to the C5 than the cobras.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 9, 2004

Matt90GT said:
For the c5 vette calipers, they are not the same as the cobras. The cobras have the holes cause that is how the caliper is retained to the car. You remove the holes or pads and the caliper will fall off the car.

The c5s have the slots which means it is like the GT PBR calipers with use the slide pins. I would say the GT PBRs are closer in design to the C5 than the cobras.

Well that's sort of what I said. The C5 caliper can use crazy glue to hold the pads on it's still a 40mm/40mm twin piston PBR caliper. From a performance standpoint, i don't see much of a difference between then and 99+ spec cobra brakes...especially if using a quality rotor and pad setup and not that Crossdrilled/slotted junk.

mwarrior · Feb 21, 2004

I'm not sure if I read this properly, but the $400 you're saving is for 2 pistons, the ones tnat most companies (ie. mustangparts.com) sell for $399 are the '99-up Cobra calipers, yes. But these are 2-piston calipers, where the corvette calipers and the $800-$2000 kits are 4-piston calipers, or in some cases with Wilwood, 6-piston. Better brake modulation and all that good stuff.

Mustang5L5 said:
Correct me if i am wrong, but aren't these the 99-04 Cobra front brakes basically? 13" x 1.1" is the same dimension of the 99+ Cobra rotor and the New Cobra calipers are 40mm/40mm. Corvette, Ford, and Baer all get their calipers made by PBR. I can't imagine these giving you THAT much of an increase over the 94-98 38mm cobra calipers. Of course, the 94-98 Cobra rotors are junk and the Brembo 99-04 Cobra rotors are way better.

I am not sure if these rotors are the same kits that i see all the time for $399 from different vendors. I know some of them use the better 99-04 Brembo rotors, but not sure if the calipers are the 38mm or 40mm pistons. If they are the 40's, then you can save the $400 it would cost extra to have the word BAER written on them. I don't know why Baer is telling you it would make a night and day difference. It's the same basic brakes...but 2mm bigger.

What front rotors are you using exactly? I know the 99-04 spec brembo rotors are a bit better quality then the 94-98 ones. Also, like Blackfox5.0 said, look into upgrading the solid rear rotors to the larger vented Cobra 11.65" rear setup.

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