Budget HCI. need some direction please

[fiveoho]

gonna start by saying i know the array of parts i chose will not make ball-busting power or huge numbers. but i do expect a noticeable gain over stock. very tight budget.

the car: 95 GT. 115k, stock internals. 5 speed

i found a REALLY good deal on a set of fresh GT40 (non p) iron heads. they have been resurfaced, mag'd, 3 angled, stock springs, complete ready to go.

my questions ( please overlook my ignorance ). these were 93 cobra heads...

will there be a problem putting them on my 95?
will my smog or egr stuff cause a problem?
i should be able to use my current mac shorty headers with these?
should i invest in new roller rocker arms? 1.6s will clear factory valve covers, 1.7s may not, correct?
what are the "safe brands" of rockers to buy? do i buy pedestal or stud?
if stud, do i get 3/8" or 7/16" ?
any problems me using my factory stock 115k pistons?


i would also want to swap out springs on the heads ( should i? ) to run the TFS 2000 cam. will these springs work?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TFS-2500100&N=700+115&autoview=sku

do i need to swap out the stock stamped rockers for roller rockers?

i guess i need to swap out the stock lifters for new ones?

and of course, a gasket set.


parts i already have:

TFS street heat upper and lower
GT40 elbow
TFS 2000 cam
FRPP timing set
FRPP 24lb injectors
Pro M 75mm mass air (cali'd for 24)
BBK 70mm TB
Aeromotive AFPR
Walbro 190 pump
FRRP lifter spider
FRRP balancer (non sfi)
FRRP flywheel
CAI
MSD cap/rotor/coil
FRRP 9mm wires
Mac shorties
X pipe , catless
full 2.5" spintech exhaust
Hypertech chip
centerforce clutch
FRRP 4.10s


all the above in conjuction with iron GT40's. i know this isnt a power house combo, but could i expect 260-275whp ?


does this sound a decent budget HCI?


additional bonus: i have a close friend who is willing to do the job and charge next to nothing to swap everything out, provided i help.


Sorry for all the questions, some of them ignorance on my part. to those who can answer them its GREATLY appreciated.

thanks guys

 

[vladasap]

i'd love to see the answers to ALL of your questions, im in the same exact position as you are with the same exact mods on a 95 gt with 120K and looking to get the same parts that you are...
cant wait to see where this thread goes
CMON STANGNET HELPP!!!

 

[94-302-vert]

With how much you already have... why not wait for some heads that will not be a restriction... I mean you have like $1500+ in mods sitting there and you are going to sell yourself 30-40 hp short to save a few hundred on some better heads?

Don't forget you will need a tune after too and that is anywhere up to $500-$600...

 

[fiveoho]

With how much you already have... why not wait for some heads that will not be a restriction... I mean you have like $1500+ in mods sitting there and you are going to sell yourself 30-40 hp short to save a few hundred on some better heads?

Don't forget you will need a tune after too and that is anywhere up to $500-$600...

all the other parts are new but i also got a really good deal on most of them as well. i would love to get alum heads but when i can get complete rebuilt gt40s for $310 to the door, thats at least $4-500 cheaper than a set of good used alum heads. i could use that 4-500 for a tune

 

[fiveoho]

i'd love to see the answers to ALL of your questions, im in the same exact position as you are with the same exact mods on a 95 gt with 120K and looking to get the same parts that you are...
cant wait to see where this thread goes
CMON STANGNET HELPP!!!

hopefully i'll get all the info i want. guys here a really helpful. pretty cool to see a fellow stangeter planning the same HCI. you poor too?

 

[legalize420]

your on the right track and your goals are realistic. $310 is a really good deal. the gt40 heads use ped mount rockers. you would need to have them machined to accept the stud rockers. my crane 1.7's clear under the stock valve covers. you can use your headers

 

[fiveoho]

your on the right track and your goals are realistic. $310 is a really good deal. the gt40 heads use ped mount rockers. you would need to have them machined to accept the stud rockers. my crane 1.7's clear under the stock valve covers. you can use your headers

thanks for the info bud, i appreciate it!

 

[94-302-vert]

Oh Yeah... don't forget about Thumper heads...

 

[fiveoho]

Oh Yeah... don't forget about Thumper heads...

been looking at those for a while. $695 for a set of complete heads that supposedly outflow gt40s, not too bad. comes with a .600 spring as well.

the only thing is to get the 695 price, i have to send in my core ( 100 ) and then pay shipping on my core which im sure will be $80. then pay shipping on the thumper heads to recieve them.

if i could just find someone local to buy my e7s for like $100, id just rather do that and pay $795 for the thumpers. wouldnt have to mess with all the shipping stuff.

i hear good things about mike at thumper tho. whats your thoughts?

 

[5spd GT]

gonna start by saying i know the array of parts i chose will not make ball-busting power or huge numbers. but i do expect a noticeable gain over stock. very tight budget.

the car: 95 GT. 115k, stock internals. 5 speed

i found a REALLY good deal on a set of fresh GT40 (non p) iron heads. they have been resurfaced, mag'd, 3 angled, stock springs, complete ready to go.

my questions ( please overlook my ignorance ). these were 93 cobra heads...

will there be a problem putting them on my 95?
will my smog or egr stuff cause a problem?
i should be able to use my current mac shorty headers with these?
should i invest in new roller rocker arms? 1.6s will clear factory valve covers, 1.7s may not, correct?
what are the "safe brands" of rockers to buy? do i buy pedestal or stud?
if stud, do i get 3/8" or 7/16" ?
any problems me using my factory stock 115k pistons?

Nice find on the heads It seems to me you understand there are better heads out there, but it doesn't matter, because you got a good deal and want a bit more power, like we all do

I'll address some of the questions like I know how...

1. There should not be any problems bolting them on. They are straight Gt-40 Iron heads. They were the same on all 93-95 Cobra's. The blocks are still the same that it bolts down on. It does utilize a little bit bigger valves: 1.84"/1.54" compared to the stock E7 heads: 1.78"/1.45". That still should not be an issue, because many bolt-on 1.9/1.6 Inline heads (like Edelbrock or AFR) without a piston/valve interference.

2. There should be no issues with smog or EGR. As far as I know, the smog was for sure on there, and I'm quite sure the EGR is. Someone can help you with that. It should be a direct swap.

3. Yep, you can reuse your current Mac headers if they were on your stock e7's to begin with As long as it is not the P version of the head, like you said.

4. The 93-95 Cobra's came with the heads you have. With those heads, it came with 1.7 Crane/Ford Roller Rockers, part number: 063-44746-16. There should not be an issue with bolting on those factory roller rockers, unless there was a difference in valve covers, which I do not think there was.

Now stud-mounted rockers are usually a bit larger, and some 1.6's do not clear stock valve covers. But that does not matter, because the Gt-40 heads you have are pedestal mounted So you buy pedestal mounted rockers, and Crane or Scorpion, I have had good luck with.

5. The pistons will not be an issue at all They are plenty fine for an N/A combination and the '93-95 Cobra's got the same pistons that you have, the cast aluminum alloy ones, aka hypereutectic.

i would also want to swap out springs on the heads ( should i? ) to run the TFS 2000 cam. will these springs work?
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=TFS-2500100&N=700+115&autoview=sku

do i need to swap out the stock stamped rockers for roller rockers?

i guess i need to swap out the stock lifters for new ones?

and of course, a gasket set.


parts i already have:

TFS street heat upper and lower
GT40 elbow
TFS 2000 cam
FRPP timing set
FRPP 24lb injectors
Pro M 75mm mass air (cali'd for 24)
BBK 70mm TB
Aeromotive AFPR
Walbro 190 pump
FRRP lifter spider
FRRP balancer (non sfi)
FRRP flywheel
CAI
MSD cap/rotor/coil
FRRP 9mm wires
Mac shorties
X pipe , catless
full 2.5" spintech exhaust
Hypertech chip
centerforce clutch
FRRP 4.10s

1. I assume by the "TFS-2000" cam you mean the TFS-51402000, Trickflow Stage 1

Here is what Trickflow recommends:

TFS 1 - 221*/225* - 275*/279* - .499"/.510" - .312"/.319" - 112* - 108*/116* - 2,000-5,500 RPM
1.6 Rocker Ratio
Intake Opening: 3* BTDC
Intake Closing: 38* ABDC
Exhaust Opening: 49* BBDC
Exhaust Closing: 4* BTDC

Recommended Valve Springs:
TFS-51400413 with 1.6 ratio rocker arms
Recommended Valve Springs:
TFS-31400414 with 1.7 ratio rocker arms

So I would stick with the above, depending on which rocker size you decide to go with.

2. You do not need to swap out the stock stamped rockers, unless you really want to. They have enough structural rigidity to get the job done.

3. Getting new lifters is always a good thing, but the factory ones can last a long time if you have seen no visual defects/scraping. Here is a factory set replacement:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=FMS-M-6500-R302

Getting new lifters is also a good idea, based upon the fact that many cam manufacturers do not hold a warranty unless you used new lifters with the new cam, like the Trickflow Stage 1 you are looking at.

4. It looks like you have most of the parts covered In my signature I have a h/c/i write-up with a parts list and suggested tool list you may want to know before doing the swap, and it is as followed:

'87-'95 Heads, Cam, Intake Install Help

Checklist and Suggested Parts:

Parts are specific for 87-93 although most parts are the same for 94/95.

Head Gaskets - ROL-HG32841HR (.039) or ROL-HG32841HT (.045)
Lower Intake Gasket – FEL-MS93334 (stock) or FEL1250S
Upper to Lower Intake Gasket – Depends on Intake Used.
Valve Cover Gaskets* - FMS-M-6584-A50 (OEM)
Thermostat Gasket - FEL-35440
Timing Cover/Front Seal/Water Pump/Oil Pan U Gasket Kit - FEL-TCS45449
Water Pump Gasket - FEL-35211 (Plate to Block), FEL-35380 (Pump to Plate)
Head Bolts - FEL-ES72155 (stock), ARP-154-3601 (7/16”, recommended)
Header/Manifold Gaskets – FEL-1415
EGR Valve Gasket* - EDL-3830 (65-70mm TB/EGR/Plate to Valve Gasket)
Throttle Body Gasket - Same as above.
Intake Air Bypass Valve Gasket* - Same as above.
Hardened Pushrods
Timing Chain/Gear - FMS-M-6268-A302 or RollMaster - CS3071
Fuel Injectors
Mass Air Flow Sensor Calibrated for Injector
Fuel Pump (Stock is 88 or 95lph – Upgrade to 155/190/255lph)

*Optional

There are many different brands of products that you could use above instead of the ones outlined.

Tools:

¼”-15/16” Shallow and Deep Well Sockets and Wrenches
Combination of Extensions
Break Over Bar
Torque Wrench
Harmonic Balancer Puller
Gear Puller* (optional for stubborn timing chain)
Moroso Oil Pump Primer* - MOR-62210
A/C and Fuel Line Disconnect Tools*
Allen Wrenches*
Adjustable Wrench
Flathead and Phillips Screwdriver
Cam Degree Kit*
LocTite
Ultra Black RTV
Antiseize
Thread Sealer for Lower Head Bolts and Coolant Sensors
Assembly Lube or Oil for cam/lifters
Two Oil Changes and Filters
Ford Thermactor Plugs* (2 extra plugs if no smog equipment)
Gasket Scraper
Brake Cleaner
Degreaser*
Ziploc Bags*
Masking Tape*
Marker*

*Optional

Check out www.rockauto.com for any more parts/tools you may need

all the above in conjuction with iron GT40's. i know this isnt a power house combo, but could i expect 260-275whp ?


does this sound a decent budget HCI?


additional bonus: i have a close friend who is willing to do the job and charge next to nothing to swap everything out, provided i help.


Sorry for all the questions, some of them ignorance on my part. to those who can answer them its GREATLY appreciated.

thanks guys

I think those numbers are very possible man

It sounds like a very decent budget H/C/I swap to me as well.

And you can't beat having a friend to help you with little liability

Good Luck, and if there was not something I was clear-on, I or someone else can hopefully expound on it better for you...

Oh, and ported thumpers do flow better than the '93-'95 Cobra heads. In general, the gt-40 heads flow in the 187 cfm range on the intake side, while the thumpers flow at 218/154 all with the stock exhaust valve size of 1.78/1.45".

 

[fiveoho]

i knew there was a reason why i PM'd you

i REALLY appreciate you taking the time to answer all my questions and also for going out of the way to list all the tools and part #s. big big help.

i have dilema now. i have read in this forum and few others who have made the same mistake as i have, so i dont feel TOO dumb. my buddy works at advance. to make a long story short, the computer system/inventory system there shows 93 cobra heads ( complete and totally remanufactured ) for like $176 each + tax. with my buddys discount, i could get both heads to the store for $310....yea i was having a fit. well the more i thought about the more i realized how unlucky of a guy i usually am and how this deal sounded way to sweet. so called and got the casting numbers on the head. its a E6 casting ( cant remember the last ) and my understanding, these came on 85/86 cars and are more restrictive than my factory E7s . kinda sucks. so i am still on the hunt for budget heads. thumpers are def a choice.

was looking at these as well: http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=40

i would have to buy P headers tho . where can i buy them?


thanks again 5 spd GT! please continue to post in this forum. even tho my head deal fell thru, i have alot of info still

 

[final5-0]

Here are several Iron head based combos

I could fit a few with Aluminum as well on the single page screen shot

Some of the dyno values are STD & some are SAE so don't be mislead

Grady

 

[dstang01]

hopefully i'll get all the info i want. guys here a really helpful. pretty cool to see a fellow stangeter planning the same HCI. you poor too?

me three guys also planning a similar budget combo

 

[wlink1]

me three guys also planning a similar budget combo

Me 4 guys I am on the budget build as well, my brother is picking up my fully ported E7 tonight for $225 luckily he is stationed in Maryland, he is getting my Mustang parts and I am going to pick up his supra parts. Win/Win

 

[fiveoho]

thanks for the chart grady, pretty cool

assuming the numbers are corrected on some, the numbers on a few a very decent


dstang and wlink- hang out in the thread for a while, maybe we can all benefit from it

 

[wlink1]

Do the E7 heads run pedstal mount RR's also?

 

[Sirone]

Do the E7 heads run pedstal mount RR's also?

Yes.

 

[final5-0]

thanks for the chart grady, pretty cool

assuming the numbers are corrected on some, the numbers on a few a very decent

Since you & others recently are looking to do something with iron heads

I'd like to point out a few things that could hold down the numbers
more that you might expect when you start to take a close look at lot of
these budget combos

1) Many times, these combos are a first attempt by their owners at major
motor mods and nothing but bolting on the various parts was done.

Attention to details that can really make a difference might have been
over looked due to little or no experience

Things such as .....
port alignment
gasket covering ports
weak valve springs
valve adjustment
etc

Things such as those and more can hold down the results a bit

2) Many times a budget combo is focused around a S M A L L budget
There is no money for a custom tune

You can go so far as to say ... the cam was N O T selected with a focus
on making power ... but ... with a focus on it playing nice with the pcm

Here is something to think about

Ever see how a few iron head combos make a good bit more power
than all the rest

Its in the details
and
Some of the time: ...
A L L of those details have not been revealed

3) A lot of these budget combo owners have but one car and it is their
Stang that is the daily driver. You gotta place the dd thing as a priority
over a Stang that might make more power but it could cause you grief
on a daily basis with a more aggressive combo

Just a few things to think about

Grady

 

[fiveoho]

im fortunate enough to have a accord for my DD so my stang can stand to be down a while. also would allow me to "work out the kinks" of the combo and not be so much under the gun.

a custom tune can always be done later on down the road

 

[5spd GT]

fiveoho - It isn't a problem I enjoy helping people if I can or know something about it. The forum tends to be self-correcting, so if I or someone else post something a bit off, usually someone can come in and provide a better viewpoint Grady is very good at this...and I agree with all he has said in the thread.

Having another daily driver is nice