Building A 331 Stroker.......advice

Gearbanger 101 · Jun 13, 2013

sundown_2004 said:
The reason you are faster than the coyote ugly cars is because you have a far better power to weight ratio. Also, those cars wont be as easy to modify and a far more expensive to mod because of the advanced computers in them. Dollar for dollar i would put my money on a 5.0 or windsor block because of the ease of modification compared to the new 5.0 block. Plus those coyote engines cannot be stroked to far out without spending the big dollars on a new block from ford. I cite 5.0 mustang as my source on that. They are also a nightmare to tune. those cars are just too expensive to tune and build right now. Also there is the problem of having to tune the motors everytime you change any part of the engine or anything that messes with air flow into the engine or fuel. This is due to the extreme control over the fuel delivery and timing of the ignition of the intake charge. This is due to the extreme air to fuel ratios the coyote motors run at lower loads and rpms (40 to one if im right at some points). So you cant imagine the extreme AMOUNT of processing power and control over the engine to accomplish this. Anyway 5.0 forever..............

While much of that is true, I will say that the Coyote 5.0L TiVCT is no joke. Nearly 370rwhp from 302ci, with a smooth idle, flawless drivability and power delivery, spectacular emissions and near 30mpg capable fuel economy. That's something the old 5.0L OHV could never dream of matching.

And yes, the cars are very mod sensitive, but also very responsive....not to mention can be fine tuned to the limit. Unlike our Fox's that pretty much need to ballpark it....and lets be honest here....are always plagued with some form of ECU gremlin no matter how much time it spends on the dyno.

There are good and bad to everything. Our saving grace with the Fox body is the weight advantage of the car itself. As far as engine goes, that Coyote is pretty tough to compete with across the board. You might make a 302/351W variant as, or more powerful with enough parts and/or displacement, you might be able to tune a 302 to get Coyote like mileage and drivability if you're conservative enough with cam selection and fuel/spark tables.... you might even be able to choke one down enough that it keeps the smog police off your back. But the sad thing is....the Coyote does all of that and more, with the same engine!!! We might get one or two of those options with a Windsor, but have to take a bath on the others.

Don't get me wrong....I love my Fox and have no plans on getting rid of it anytime soon, but I still bow to the superiority of the modern Mustang. If I could pick up a new Coyote powered S197 right now, for what I've got into my Fox, I'd probably have one sitting in the driveway as we speak.

toolow91 said:
either way even if you went 331 you'd want a 28oz balance which would mean you need a fly wheel and balancer any way because at 50oz balance the crank looks like Swiss cheese and that's not cool

Yeah. I had mine balanced to 28oz and I gotta say...the crank looks much more stout. Heavy in the middle, instead of on the ends like the 50oz. Still....great deal for all. Right around $1,200 for the rotating assembly, billet flywheel and balancer. This was a CHP assembly.

TOOLOW91 · Jun 13, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
While much of that is true, I will say that the Coyote 5.0L TiVCT is no joke. Nearly 370rwhp from 302ci, with a smooth idle, flawless drivability and power delivery, spectacular emissions and near 30mpg capable fuel economy. That's something the old 5.0L OHV could never dream of matching.

And yes, the cars are very mod sensitive, but also very responsive....not to mention can be fine tuned to the limit. Unlike our Fox's that pretty much need to ballpark it....and lets be honest here....are always plagued with some form of ECU gremlin no matter how much time it spends on the dyno.

There are good and bad to everything. Our saving grace with the Fox body is the weight advantage of the car itself. As far as engine goes, that Coyote is pretty tough to compete with across the board. You might make a 302/351W variant as, or more powerful with enough parts and/or displacement, you might be able to tune a 302 to get Coyote like mileage and drivability if you're conservative enough with cam selection and fuel/spark tables.... you might even be able to choke one down enough that it keeps the smog police off your back. But the sad thing is....the Coyote does all of that and more, with the same engine!!! We might get one or two of those options with a Windsor, but have to take a bath on the others.

Don't get me wrong....I love my Fox and have no plans on getting rid of it anytime soon, but I still bow to the superiority of the modern Mustang. If I could pick up a new Coyote powered S197 right now, for what I've got into my Fox, I'd probably have one sitting in the driveway as we speak.

Yeah. I had mine balanced to 28oz and I gotta say...the crank looks much more stout. Heavy in the middle, instead of on the ends like the 50oz. Still....great deal for all. Right around $1,200 for the rotating assembly, billet flywheel and balancer. This was a CHP assembly.

yup when I do mine it will be a CHP assembly as well

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Grabbin' Asphalt · Jun 13, 2013

this is a good one

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/i-need-a-very-specific-website.589036/

Rick 91GT · Jun 18, 2013

It also comes down to budget...you start to build big cubic inch motors and the fuel system and suspension of the car truly needs to be addressed so it can add up quick.

I did a 333ci combo for a member here 89stang, out of the box AFR185, UNTOUCHED cobra intake, custom cam and made near 400rwhp, efi, 110% streetable.

TOOLOW91 · Jun 18, 2013

Rick 91GT said:
It also comes down to budget...you start to build big cubic inch motors and the fuel system and suspension of the car truly needs to be addressed so it can add up quick.

I did a 333ci combo for a member here 89stang, out of the box AFR185, UNTOUCHED cobra intake, custom cam and made near 400rwhp, efi, 110% streetable.

I can vouch for that motor on numerous occasions I have been at the same events with him and he has had nothing but great things to say about it

Sent from my iPhone using my fingers

Grabbin' Asphalt · Jun 18, 2013

Rick 91GT said:
It also comes down to budget...you start to build big cubic inch motors and the fuel system and suspension of the car truly needs to be addressed so it can add up quick.

I did a 333ci combo for a member here 89stang, out of the box AFR185, UNTOUCHED cobra intake, custom cam and made near 400rwhp, efi, 110% streetable.

Curious about the cam you're using for that??

Rick 91GT · Jun 18, 2013

Its one on my own customs....off top of my head its about .550/.570 224/232-236 114 with a 1.6 rocker.

We actually intended to use a little n20 on the car so the can was designed dual purpose. Car made 360+ft lbs of tq afrer a cool down with great air at night it peaked 404/385... The car runs great, extremely strong

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

Grabbin' Asphalt · Jun 18, 2013

Rick 91GT said:
Its one on my own customs....off top of my head its about .550/.570 224/232-236 114 with a 1.6 rocker.

We actually intended to use a little n20 on the car so the can was designed dual purpose. Car made 360+ft lbs of tq afrer a cool down with great air at night it peaked 404/385... The car runs great, extremely strong

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

Nice, i like a streetable car for sure!!

89stang1 · Jun 18, 2013

Rick 91GT said:
It also comes down to budget...you start to build big cubic inch motors and the fuel system and suspension of the car truly needs to be addressed so it can add up quick.

I did a 333ci combo for a member here 89stang, out of the box AFR185, UNTOUCHED cobra intake, custom cam and made near 400rwhp, efi, 110% streetable.

hey rick just turned 20 thousand miles on motor shes running great! motor is very streetable! here is the mustang dyno results

idle vid

View: http://youtu.be/yyCfumXHOqQ

pics
http://photobucket.com/PICTURES89

TOOLOW91 · Jun 18, 2013

just creamed my pants

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Gearbanger 101 · Jun 18, 2013

Decent numbers. What's the consensus on the Trick Flow 185's vs. The AFR 185's comparatively. Are users finding one makes any more power than the other? Is one of them of any better quality (valve train components, machine work, etc) than the other?

I'm sure once I get bored with the performance of my ported GT40X's, I'll likely step up to one of these two head castings.

Grabbin' Asphalt · Jun 18, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
Decent numbers. What's the consensus on the Trick Flow 185's vs. The AFR 185's comparatively. Are users finding one makes any more power than the other? Is one of them of any better quality (valve train components, machine work, etc) than the other?

I'm sure once I get bored with the performance of my ported GT40X's, I'll likely step up to one of these two head castings.

Yup great thought!!

Rick 91GT · Jun 18, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
Decent numbers. What's the consensus on the Trick Flow 185's vs. The AFR 185's comparatively. Are users finding one makes any more power than the other? Is one of them of any better quality (valve train components, machine work, etc) than the other?

I'm sure once I get bored with the performance of my ported GT40X's, I'll likely step up to one of these two head castings.

Can't compare the port length on the 2 heads are totally different...both work very well

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89stang1 · Jun 18, 2013

I agree with rick both are great heads if not the two best! of course im partial to afr but one thing i gotta say if you buy afr upgrade your rocker studs to arp studs, i broke a afr stud and after serching the net i found alot of others did too besides that i love them.
Jeff where do i send that check again... thanks bro! coming from someone owning a gorgeous coupe like yours i appreciate it!!

clement · Jun 18, 2013

my buddies stock '13 coyote went 8.20s@85 in the 1/8th. now with a tune and CIA its running 7.90s@89. a 331 with TFS heads and a real intake should easily go 7.20s on motor. there is a 331 combo running around here with a holley systemax 2 intake, afr 185s running 6.90s@95 on motor. with a Windsor you get a stronger block and more displacement growth in the future. a stock displacement Windsor with good heads on pump gas on the motor in a setup car can run high 6s as well with room to grow and more block strength. nothing wrong with a stroked 302. they will go high 10s all motor pretty easily.

Grabbin' Asphalt · Jun 18, 2013

89stang1 said:
hey rick just turned 20 thousand miles on motor shes running great! motor is very streetable! here is the mustang dyno results

idle vid
View: http://youtu.be/yyCfumXHOqQ

pics
http://photobucket.com/PICTURES89

You're trq RPM #'s 3000-4000 is just plain stupid

here's my little ecam dyno sheet

89stang1 · Jun 19, 2013

Grabbin' Asphalt said:
You're trq RPM #'s 3000-4000 is just plain stupid

here's my little ecam dyno sheet

its makes roll pulls at 40mph in 2nd gear 4000rpm work real good! btw good numbers real nice torque she must pull good!

Gearbanger 101 · Jun 19, 2013

Guess I'll be looking into a set of AFR's when the time comes to upgrade from the GT40X's. That and I don't think my pistons are cut to accept the Twist Wedge valve configuration anyway? Beyond the heads, our combo's look very similar.

Rick 91GT · Jun 19, 2013

Johns combo made more then I thought, I really wanted to put a Holley intake on the motor since I knew the Cobra would hold back the true potential. However John had the nice powered coated Cobra and it wasn't going anywhere.

The motor is just very efficient and while he is giving up some top end HP he makes up in low end tq. The car has a nice steep tq curve like a big inch Windsor, the curves down low are great.

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Rick 91GT · Jun 19, 2013

Gearbanger 101 said:
Guess I'll be looking into a set of AFR's when the time comes to upgrade from the GT40X's. That and I don't think my pistons are cut to accept the Twist Wedge valve configuration anyway? Beyond the heads, our combo's look very similar.

The TFS would still fit with the rotated design of the valve and you could still get pretty crazy with the cam profile

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Building A 331 Stroker.......advice

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

Grabbin' Asphalt

Rick 91GT

Mustang Master

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

Grabbin' Asphalt

Rick 91GT

Mustang Master

Grabbin' Asphalt

89stang1

Stroked and Juiced

TOOLOW91

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

Grabbin' Asphalt

Rick 91GT

Mustang Master

89stang1

Stroked and Juiced

clement

Grabbin' Asphalt

89stang1

Stroked and Juiced

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

Rick 91GT

Mustang Master

Rick 91GT

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