Built engine emissions considerations

foxbodybill89 · Aug 29, 2020

I have a curious question that I've never really seen much discussion on- I have not done an engine build for a car but am just starting to plan a 347 stroker for the near future. Those of you who have built engines from the ground up (all new or aftermarket parts) for a street-driven car, how much do you consider any of the original style EGR, smog, or EVAP systems or do you just rely on modern parts and computer control systems to keep emissions in check? Myself if I were building an engine I would throw all the old factory methods out the window and just try to use the best combination of new parts for efficiency and performance without any "unnecessary" systems. I am not in an emissions testing state BTW.

91TwighlightGT · Aug 29, 2020

It really depends on the state. Some states or counties within states have little to no emissions testing, while others (California, for example) have very strict laws that also include a visual inspection. Eliminating your smog pump would be a non-starter in those states based on the visual inspection alone.

Mustang5L5 · Aug 29, 2020

No longer need to pass the sniffer, but I kept cats inside my car as it’s one of the things they check for at inspection time. They don’t pop the hood, so I yanked all the stuff, but kept the EGR and charcoal canister functional.

foxbodybill89 · Aug 29, 2020

Thanks guys, more specifically I mean if you started fresh with a completely empty engine bay and none of the original parts, what would you include in the new setup? Not what existing parts you would remove from a running car.

91TwighlightGT · Aug 29, 2020

foxbodybill89 said:
Thanks guys, more specifically I mean if you started fresh with a completely empty engine bay and none of the original parts, what would you include in the new setup? Not what existing parts you would remove from a running car.

Again, it depends what state you are in and what your intentions are with the car. Personally, if I was in an emissions exempt state I would still have Cats, EGR, and Charcoal canister. I wouldn't bother with the smog pump, though.

revhead347 · Aug 29, 2020

I mean if you don't live in an emissions state, what's your goal? My car passes emissions with 2 cheapy Magnaflow catalytic converters I throw on there every 2 years. I have the charcoal cannister hooked up with the purge solenoid. If you just want it not to stink, I would go with 2 of those really high flow cats, and the gas tank vent hooked up and that's it.

Kurt

Mustang5L5 · Aug 29, 2020

foxbodybill89 said:
Thanks guys, more specifically I mean if you started fresh with a completely empty engine bay and none of the original parts, what would you include in the new setup? Not what existing parts you would remove from a running car.

That’s what I did.

I’m putting cats, EGR and charcoal canister back. My cats don’t need the air pump, so that’s deleted. No sniffer, but inspection shops are instructed to turn cars away without cats. the hood stays shut

foxbodybill89 · Aug 29, 2020

revhead347 said:
I mean if you don't live in an emissions state, what's your goal? My car passes emissions with 2 cheapy Magnaflow catalytic converters I throw on there every 2 years. I have the charcoal cannister hooked up with the purge solenoid. If you just want it not to stink, I would go with 2 of those really high flow cats, and the gas tank vent hooked up and that's it.

Kurt

Sorry guys what I'm trying to figure out is the minimum systems for proper functionality/drivability without needing to meet any standards or laws. Cleaner engine bay and fewer systems to have to keep functional. Most discussions are about passing the emissions test, but what are the bare bones systems an EFI 5.0 actually requires to run right? This engine also would have a PRO-M engine management system so from the computer side it would be pretty flexible.

Mustang5L5 · Aug 29, 2020

Without a tune? Then just leave the
EGR. But a tune or aftermarket ECU can make that unnecessary as well.

charcosl canister can be deleted with some hardware added to address the fumes, and modern cats don’t require the air pump system.

It can all go with the right prep

revhead347 · Aug 29, 2020

foxbodybill89 said:
Sorry guys what I'm trying to figure out is the minimum systems for proper functionality/drivability without needing to meet any standards or laws. Cleaner engine bay and fewer systems to have to keep functional. Most discussions are about passing the emissions test, but what are the bare bones systems an EFI 5.0 actually requires to run right? This engine also would have a PRO-M engine management system so from the computer side it would be pretty flexible.

You don't need any emissions stuff then. I was struggling there for a moment. I thought that would be obvious.

Kurt

7991LXnSHO · Aug 30, 2020

Bench racing aside, we are one election away from having nation wide emission standards testing in all cars in all states. Better save everything you take off if you do not want your car impounded.

jrichker · Aug 30, 2020

7991LXnSHO said:
Bench racing aside, we are one election away from having nation wide emission standards testing in all cars in all states. Better save everything you take off if you do not want your car impounded.

Wait until some politician tells you that you must put a smog system on the rear end of every cow. Didn't you know that Cow Farts are a major pollutant and a threat to our clear air?

revhead347 · Aug 30, 2020

7991LXnSHO said:
Bench racing aside, we are one election away from having nation wide emission standards testing in all cars in all states. Better save everything you take off if you do not want your car impounded.

I seriously doubt that. The politicians can't even get the manufacturers to stop lying about car emissions, which is of far greater concern than dynoing the 1% of cars on the road that aren't OBD2. There are far better ways to curb emissions than to build thousands of test dynos.

Kurt

Adieu · Aug 30, 2020

Legally, according to FEDERAL law, ALL of the original emissions equipment must stay on the car and be functional, regardless of where in the United States you live.

That said, in a city/county/state that doesn't inspect, you can get away with almost anything, but it doesn't make it legal.

Even in states with inspections, there's loopholes. In Texas, for instance, my '75 Mustang II would still fail a visual for not having an EGR valve, PCV valve, AIR pump, factory-style air cleaner with pre-heater tube, and the charcoal canister (which is there, but not connected). It would pass in spite of no longer having catalytic converters because Texas doesn't require them on cars built before 1984. None of this directly matters because the car doesn't get inspected because it has Antique plates which exempt it from inspection and a front license plate. All of it is still technically illegal.

7991LXnSHO said:
Bench racing aside, we are one election away from having nation wide emission standards testing in all cars in all states. Better save everything you take off if you do not want your car impounded.

The EPA started a royal crackdown on performance parts under the current administration, threatening to even go so far as to start sending agents to dirt tracks and drag strips. This is currently being battled in the courts, not the ballot box.

revhead347 said:
I seriously doubt that. The politicians can't even get the manufacturers to stop lying about car emissions, which is of far greater concern than dynoing the 1% of cars on the road that aren't OBD2. There are far better ways to curb emissions than to build thousands of test dynos.

Kurt

There are better ways to reduce emissions at the tailpipe than farm subsidies for ethanol to be added to gasoline too, but that's still happening because it garners votes. If the politicians think dyno manufacturers will give campaign donations and hire the right lobbyists and PR people to make the idea popular, it'll happen.

revhead347 · Aug 30, 2020

I know all that, I just don't see it happening. It's a very expensive way to fix a problem, and there isn't much money to go around right now. It sounds more like a scare tactic to get a group of people to vote against their own interests, like "They are coming to get your guns!"

Kurt

Mustang5L5 · Aug 30, 2020

Mass eliminated emissions testing because it was deemed too expensive to keep the systems operating given the relatively few pre-obd2 vehicles that didn’t rust out. They just rely on the OBD2 scan and exempted all pre-obd vehicles.

I don’t see them going back to the sniffer anytime soon given that they recently did away with them and revamped the inspection process to heavily depend on the obd2 scan

General karthief · Aug 30, 2020

It was also too easy to get a 'inspection sticker' here in Florida, they mostly just checked lights, brakes and horn not emissions stuff anyway.
It was more of a safety inspection.

Foxslider · Aug 30, 2020

Id just find a place to buy the sticker.

In Tx, over 25 yrs old its basically just a visual inspection. Horn, blinkers, lights.

revhead347 · Aug 30, 2020

General karthief said:
It was also too easy to get a 'inspection sticker' here in Florida, they mostly just checked lights, brakes and horn not emissions stuff anyway.
It was more of a safety inspection.

You must have not lived in an emissions County in Florida back in the day. It was 2 hours of sitting in line with the car idling for them to do a sniffer test at idle. By the time you actually got to the test in the damp 95 degree air, the car was so loaded it up it failed. The trick was to wait until you were about 10 cars out, and then pull the spout connector, and drop the fuel pressure a few PSI so the engine got so hot it would melt diamonds.

Kurt

Adieu · Aug 30, 2020

Foxslider said:
Id just find a place to buy the sticker.

In Tx, over 25 yrs old its basically just a visual inspection. Horn, blinkers, lights.

Part of the visual is emissions gear.

I fail cars without cats all the time.

(I'm a state inspector in Texas).

Built engine emissions considerations

foxbodybill89

Active Member

91TwighlightGT

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

foxbodybill89

Active Member

91TwighlightGT

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

foxbodybill89

Active Member

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

7991LXnSHO

wanna catch the space herp

jrichker

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revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Foxslider

im not that much of a idiot

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

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Built engine emissions considerations

Active Member

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

Active Member

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

Active Member

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

wanna catch the space herp

StangNet's favorite TOOL

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

im not that much of a idiot

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

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