built vs bought....

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

nine3cobra said:
most people who can work on cars know that spending 10k extra for 4k in "add on go fast parts" is dumb

Explain?

hoopty5.0 · Mar 30, 2012

SSeater said:
NOT the point i was trying to make...

Oh, I didn't take your comment that way. Mainly referring to srtthis's comment about termi owners. Although I know that comment doesn't represent the majority.

hoopty5.0 · Mar 30, 2012

Gearbanger 101 said:
I wasn't referring to you, just accrediting you for making the statement. I’m making a generalized comment on those who would automatically assume that a person who chooses to buy a newer, or better car from the get go hasn't the same automotive skills, or desire as the one who would buy a 20-year-old Fox body, Making a judgement of someones ability or commitment to the hobby because they chose something that won’t require $10,000 worth of work to perform on par with the newer car in the first place is just silly.

It ALWAYS makes more sense to start with the best starting point you can afford. If someone chooses to do otherwise, they're making a decision based on other, less rational reasons.

I CHOSE my fox because of nostalgia, initial low cost purchase price and simplicity reasons. Not because it made the most sense to buy, was the better starting point, or qualifies me as more of a "car guy". I'll be the first (and by the looks of it the only) to admit that.

no, no, I should have clarified. no offense taken. I'm with you though. I bought what I could and went from there.

I just find it discouraging to spend 10k on a motor and still have it be slower than some factory vehicles

nine3cobra · Mar 30, 2012

Gearbanger 101 said:
Explain?

if you want a car that goes fast that you are not going to have to turn wrenches on for whatever reason your going to pay for it. look at the price difference between the GT and roush for example. what is it?.. roughly 15k more (probably more). you don't think you can make a GT out perform a roush for 15k?

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

I wouldn't call SRT's comment 100% off base. He could very well be right with a lot of them. But them. But then I’ve seen a lot of posers who go out and buy Fox bodies too because some guy told them they weren’t real car guys unless they owned some old muscle. In the end, who can fault someone for wanting a nice, new, fast out of the box car from the get go. Maybe they haven't the automotive knowledge, or skill to build their own and aren't the backyard mechanics some of us are....but I can't necessarily say it doesn't make them "car guys". Everyone has to start somewhere. If they want to start with an '03 Cobra, or an '11 GT instead of a Fox body like most of us did.....who are we to judge?

RacEoHolic330 · Mar 30, 2012

NikwoaC said:
Guys who would rather buy than build aren't really car people... They're boys with toys.

Well put. I agree. It's easy to tell the difference between the two as soon as they open their mouths.

hoopty5.0 · Mar 30, 2012

nine3cobra said:
if you want a car that goes fast that you are not going to have to turn wrenches on for whatever reason your going to pay for it. look at the price difference between the GT and roush for example. what is it?.. roughly 15k more (probably more). you don't think you can make a GT out perform a roush for 15k?

$15k to make a GT outperform a Roush? Turbo kit and a full suspension kit. Done.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

nine3cobra said:
if you want a car that goes fast that you are not going to have to turn wrenches on for whatever reason your going to pay for it. look at the price difference between the GT and roush for example. what is it?.. roughly 15k more (probably more). you don't think you can make a GT out perform a roush for 15k?

I think you might be under the impression that all you're getting for that price tag is an increase in strait line acceleration. Just taking one look at the two cars lays waste to that theory.

For the difference in price, you're getting a lot more than just a faster 0-60 time. Many and by many, I mean MOST of the Fox owners I encounter forget that whenever I hear them pitting up their fox against another car.
I used to have this same argument with guys over in the 4.6L forums when they would start trashing the '03-'04 Cobra and attempt to rationalize why their GT could be made just as fast for the price difference. Just as fast...sure. Now you have to compare the handling, braking, comfort, style, durability, etc, etc....and then do the math again. Any way you slice it, the '03-'04 Cobra was a real bang for the buck.

Not so much now, since the Cobra's seem to be holding their value and their smaller GT siblings seem to be dropping theirs like a stone. But that's the industry. I'm sure '99-'04 GT's will come up in value years from now as their numbers dwindle and the newer models come out, just as the Fox did. Only time will tell.

nine3cobra · Mar 30, 2012

no i am under the impression that you could build something talor suited to your needs for less, heck you could even use exact same parts they used if you wanted and it would be identical to that car with all the same stats

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

hoopty5.0 said:
$15k to make a GT outperform a Roush? Turbo kit and a full suspension kit. Done.

...and what do you think that's going to run you Hoopty?

Sit down and really do the math...and you'll see, you're not going to come up very short of that figure when all is said and done. And in the end....you still haven't copied the Roush looks, sound, or style. Not to mention it's limited production run.

I'm not saying $15K is a bargain for what you get....but you aren't going to truly duplicate the car as a whole for any less. Not with new parts anyway. You'll likely pay a fair bit more in the end.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

nine3cobra said:
no i am under the impression that you could build something you want for less you could even use exact same parts they used if you wanted

Try it. I'd love to see you post your parts list dollar by dollar.

nine3cobra · Mar 30, 2012

its already been done.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

nine3cobra said:
its already been done.

Show me...using all the same parts as the factory....just like you stated.

Oh...and no used parts allowed either. Remember...you're comparing the cost of a new car, so you'll have to compare the cost of new parts too.

hoopty5.0 · Mar 30, 2012

Gearbanger 101 said:
...and what do you think that's going to run you Hoopty?

Sit down and really do the math...and you'll see, you're not going to come up very short of that figure when all is said and done. And in the end....you still haven't copied the Roush looks, sound, or style. Not to mention it's limited production run.

I'm not saying $15K is a bargain for what you get....but you aren't going to truly duplicate the car as a whole for any less. Not with new parts anyway. You'll likely pay a fair bit more in the end.

I think he mentioned Roush's performance, not buying a Roush for a Roush. I see a difference there. What did, say an '04 mustang GT sell for?

I will agree with your stance when he mentioned building the same car as them with the same parts for less. Not a snowball's chance in hell...

hoopty5.0 · Mar 30, 2012

I do think that with the $15 difference (if indeed that is what it is) you could buy a complete turbo and suspension kit and make it outperform a Roush. Will it have the same looks and sound? Hell no, but it depends on if you are more interested in form or function. I'm more for function

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

hoopty5.0 said:
I think he mentioned Roush's performance, not buying a Roush for a Roush. I see a difference there. What did, say an '04 mustang GT sell for?

I will agree with your stance when he mentioned building the same car as them with the same parts for less. Not a snowball's chance in hell...

Of course. Building a faster, better handling car than say a new Roush is certainly possible for less money. Just as long as someone isn't claiming they can build the SAME car. The body kit, interior parts, wheels/tires and exhaust alone is going to run you better than half that. Now....sure, many people aren't going to be interested in duplicating the car as a whole....just the performance aspect. And that's fine...as long as they're taking that into account when they make the comparison between the two.

Most I hear making these statements only make their comparison from purely an acceleration, or at most a performance standpoint and ignore everything else you get when you pay that additional $15,000. Their defense when I break it down to them is "well, I don't care about that other stuff". That's great....but not caring doesn't magically make it disappear. That's the Roush "package". Companies like Roush sell their components individually for a reason. So guys don't have to buy the whole package if they don't want it. Roush just doesn't charge you $15K for a blown engine and a few suspension bolt ons, then throw everything else in for free. There are a lot of components that go into transforming the car.

Components that if individually bought, could not be had for less than Roush's $15,000 asking price. That is a fact.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 30, 2012

hoopty5.0 said:
I do think that with the $15 difference (if indeed that is what it is) you could buy a complete turbo and suspension kit and make it outperform a Roush. Will it have the same looks and sound? Hell no, but it depends on if you are more interested in form or function. I'm more for function

I agree. If fucntion is your goal, then you will successfully reach it and still come away spending less money in the end.

Just as long as one remembers....the Roush that they're comparing it to gives you both function and form for that $15K price tag....not just one, or the other. And that's where the cost difference lies.

hoopty5.0 · Mar 30, 2012

Yeah you're right. And I think most guys don't build for a road course simply because they aren't as common. If there was a road course near me, I doubt I could tell you why a 60 ft time was important.

jetmech807 · Mar 30, 2012

The DMV said my 03 stickered for like $28k when I registered it last year. I much prefer to build than buy. I don't think I'd be as happy with my cars lowered look if I hadn't spent a day changing the springs/shocks/struts. Made it more satisfying. And its hard to beat the rush you get when removing front springs "kamikaze" style.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G

hoopty5.0 · Mar 30, 2012

jetmech807 said:
The DMV said my 03 stickered for like $28k when I registered it last year. I much prefer to build than buy. I don't think I'd be as happy with my cars lowered look if I hadn't spent a day changing the springs/shocks/struts. Made it more satisfying. And its hard to beat the rush you get when removing front springs "kamikaze" style.

Sent from my HTC EVO 4G

Holy hell. That's something I hope to never do again. Coilovers FTW.

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