Bushings, Ball Joints, and Bumpsteer, Oh My!

[Flghtmstr1]

Bushings, Ball Joints, Bumpsteer?

Hello everyone,

I am about to order FRPP C-Springs, Bilstein shocks and struts, and Maximum Motorsports rear lower control arms. My car is my daily driver, and I'm just trying to make it a bit more fun in the twisties. Is there anything else I should be getting to compliment the major hardware (i.e. ball joints, bumpsteer kit, steering rack bushings, etc.)? I have to admit that I'm slightly overwhelmed by all the (oftentimes conflicting) information/opinions out there about suspension setups.

Thanks a lot!

 

[tajmas]

After spending a long time reading forums in order to answer the same question. I realized mostly everyone agreed on one thing, MM was the man when it came to suspensions. So I called them and told them what I wanted. In 10 mins. they had me set up, and saved me another 3 weeks of reading conflicting opinions. There really nice people ( Jason and Chris, anyway), and knew exactly what I needed.Give them a shot.

 

[darkside03gt]

tokico illuminas with matching springs were my second mods and love them on setting 3 the car rides better then stock. MM make really quality parts but if you want adjustabilty go with tokico illuminas or d-specs. ive put 8000 miles on my illuminas without a problem

 

[Flghtmstr1]

Thanks for the tip. The only concern I have with calling them is that they are likely to suggest their own products over products they do not carry. For example, I want C-Springs, but they don't carry them, so they probably wouldn't recommend I buy them. Am I off-base here expecting this kind of behavior from them? Maybe they're different, I don't know.

Anyway, all I'm really trying to find out is whether I need any of those easily-overlooked bits like steering rack bushings, ball joints, bumpsteer kits, adjustable tie-rod ends, caster-camber plates, etc. So what do you guys think? Will C-Springs drop the car enough to warrant the purchase of some or all of these items?

 

[Dragstr05]

Thanks for the tip. The only concern I have with calling them is that they are likely to suggest their own products over products they do not carry. For example, I want C-Springs, but they don't carry them, so they probably wouldn't recommend I buy them. Am I off-base here expecting this kind of behavior from them? Maybe they're different, I don't know.

Anyway, all I'm really trying to find out is whether I need any of those easily-overlooked bits like steering rack bushings, ball joints, bumpsteer kits, adjustable tie-rod ends, caster-camber plates, etc. So what do you guys think? Will C-Springs drop the car enough to warrant the purchase of some or all of these items?

Right off the bat, yes you will most likely need CC plates.

Whenever I do my suspension, I'll probably go through MM. They have many many "kits" available that help to simplify things. As far as what they recommend, I'd expect it would most likely be to your specific needs. They have a very wide variety of products if you havent looked at the site. If nothing else, I've never heard not one single complaint about MM.

 

[DTNODYA]

Get rack bushings because you'll need them anyway ... It will start to creek. Don't get the offset ones, get the centered.

It'd be good to replace your ball joints if they are old/worn ... You could get some urethene swaybar bushings, tie rod ends, etc. Most of that stuff is cheap (from MM).

 

[Kilgore Trout]

After spending a long time reading forums in order to answer the same question. I realized mostly everyone agreed on one thing, MM was the man when it came to suspensions. So I called them and told them what I wanted. In 10 mins. they had me set up, and saved me another 3 weeks of reading conflicting opinions. There really nice people ( Jason and Chris, anyway), and knew exactly what I needed.Give them a shot.

Yep call them...

 

[jeffnoel]

If your going C-springs you shouldn't need CC plates unless you want them. C-springs don't drop the car enough to make them mandatory.

 

[RoadconeTuning]

here is what i have INSTALLED....

Eibach Pro-kit, Strange 10-way adjustable Shocks, Poly Spring isolators and the sway bar mount bushings...

sitting, awaiting install are Strange 10-way adjustable Struts and a set of Maximum Motorsport C/C Plates... i have yet to have the car aligned but good lord is there bumpsteer... car handles AMAZING right now tho... even with 245's in frotn and 315's in the rear... the absolute limit used to be about 47mph... it is a slightly off camber turn that you enter going downhill and then AS it turns it begins going uphill to get onto the interstate, i have approached the turn at 60mph now, with just a HIT of understeer and i know that is only because i have Kumho Ecsta Supra 712's in front in 245/45R17's compared to the Sumitomot 315/35R17's in the rear... once i put the front struts on and dial them in and then get new tires im sure 75mph will be easily done


btw, i have my rear shocks set on 3... just goes to show that stiffer is not always better...

oh and here is my car running about 60-70 thru a turn here in town...

and coming back a little straiter at about 50

 

[BennyBlown2v]

Maximum Motorsports will hook you up - in fact they just came out with a spring product line.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=22_323

Seriously, it's so much easier to let a professional pick out a matched set for you than bother trying to do it yourself...and I'm a VERY VERY picky DIY kinda person lol

 

[blacksheep-1]

http://www.steeda.com/products/bumpsteer_kit.php
Is what you need if you lower the car.
I would highly recomend that you purchase all ofyour suspension stuff from the same folks. I've been criticized for saying that, but I believe it's true. If you run Steeda (as an example) they know which brand shocks and settings work best on their stuff, same thing with Maximum or anyone else, so stick with the same company for most, if not all of the suspension stuff.
BTW, installing the bump steer kit, including the ball joints made a huge difference in handling after I lowerred the car, Mr Roadcone are you listening?

 

[Thundermouse]

Another Perspective

Thanks for the tip. The only concern I have with calling them is that they are likely to suggest their own products over products they do not carry. For example, I want C-Springs, but they don't carry them, so they probably wouldn't recommend I buy them. Am I off-base here expecting this kind of behavior from them? Maybe they're different, I don't know.

As far as your question about their behavior goes, my experience has been great with their tech help. A couple times I've approached with "the next step" that I wanted to take with the car where some of the components that I decided were best for my setup were not going to be coming from MM. I'll state this out front to them, and they usually help me match which of their products will complement what I have already decided on.
Once the situation is clear that I wouldn't be buying x from MM, I've never felt pressured to buy their equivalent.


Another question to ask yourself (one which most people forget) is do you want your car to feel like it handles better, or do you want it to handle better. The answer is up to you and neither answer is better than the other.

Stiffer springs and shocks will help you get that tight suspension feel, and even in the corners that feeling alone will provide the impression that your car is handling better... and there is nothing wrong with stopping there!!!
That being said, the 'specialty equipment' that you were asking about (ball joints, bumpsteer kits, steering rack bushings etc.) is not necessary to get you to this point. Disregard any comments that claim that you need them. (make an exception for CC plates if your car won’t align)

Without fail, to move beyond this stage where your car will handle significantly better will take sacrifices; handling will take its toll on your ride quality, interior nose, drivetrain vibration, and of course your pocket book - good suspension setups don't come cheap. Good handling is a take all of it all or none of it situation. Again, going this route is not any better than making your car feel like it handles better.
Take a step back and look at it from an outside perspective: Who will trade me their car that feels like it handles well for mine that handles better but is louder, rougher on the highway, and my passengers always complain that they liked to ride in mustangs that are smoother.
If you decide that you want your car to handle better, then by all means do your due diligence in investigating everything from your ackerman angle to your rear roll center.

Take a ride in a friends mustang who has done the works to his suspension and decide what's right for you.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

As far as your question about their behavior goes, my experience has been great with their tech help. A couple times I've approached with "the next step" that I wanted to take with the car where some of the components that I decided were best for my setup were not going to be coming from MM. I'll state this out front to them, and they usually help me match which of their products will complement what I have already decided on.
Once the situation is clear that I wouldn't be buying x from MM, I've never felt pressured to buy their equivalent.


Another question to ask yourself (one which most people forget) is do you want your car to feel like it handles better, or do you want it to handle better. The answer is up to you and neither answer is better than the other.

Stiffer springs and shocks will help you get that tight suspension feel, and even in the corners that feeling alone will provide the impression that your car is handling better... and there is nothing wrong with stopping there!!!
That being said, the 'specialty equipment' that you were asking about (ball joints, bumpsteer kits, steering rack bushings etc.) is not necessary to get you to this point. Disregard any comments that claim that you need them. (make an exception for CC plates if your car won’t align)

Without fail, to move beyond this stage where your car will handle significantly better will take sacrifices; handling will take its toll on your ride quality, interior nose, drivetrain vibration, and of course your pocket book - good suspension setups don't come cheap. Good handling is a take all of it all or none of it situation. Again, going this route is not any better than making your car feel like it handles better.
Take a step back and look at it from an outside perspective: Who will trade me their car that feels like it handles well for mine that handles better but is louder, rougher on the highway, and my passengers always complain that they liked to ride in mustangs that are smoother.
If you decide that you want your car to handle better, then by all means do your due diligence in investigating everything from your ackerman angle to your rear roll center.

Take a ride in a friends mustang who has done the works to his suspension and decide what's right for you.

Wise words indeed

 

[tajmas]

I agree Thunder 100 percent. as far as cost, just spent $3500 on suspension parts, should be here soon.