Buying CAI & TUNER

05 GT Stang · Aug 20, 2005

Ok guys, i'm stuck. I'm getting a JLT CAI for sure, but i'm not sure if i should just buy the XCAL2 tuner and CAI kit for $600? Or, should i buy the JLT CAI and buy the XCAL2 tuner from another place? I was thinking it would be best to get it all at once, since JLT gives you two custom tunes with the XCAL2. Any suggestions?

jbyrd423 · Aug 20, 2005

mite as well get it all at once, epsecially if it comes wit 2 tunes already

05 GT Stang · Aug 20, 2005

in a previous thread, someone said that $600 (plus $20 shipping) was getting price gouged.

bigcat · Aug 20, 2005

lets look at the prices on the jlt webpage:

http://jlttruecoldair.com/products.php?make=Ford&model=Mustang%20GT&year=2005

it comes with the tuner, tunes, and cai. pick your poison: sct or predator. look at the price break down. cai w/ tunes for people that have tuner: $225. add about $400 for the tuner, and you are abouve the $600 mark. i dont think it is getting gouged. you might be able to buy the tuner cheaper somewhere if you have the "hook-up" but it is a competetive price, and all comes from the same place, so if there are any problems, it is an easy call to one company. search near and far on the web, and waste several hours trying to find a slightly better deal, or just go ahead and get it all in one place. thats what i would do. whats your time worth? mine is not worth a few hours to save $20. yeah you might get lucky and find a place cheaper in just a few minutes, but maybe not. i personally think that $600 is a real competetive price. just get it all at once.

shooterm1 · Aug 20, 2005

bigcat said:
it comes with the tuner, tunes, and cai. pick your poison: sct or predator. look at the price break down. cai w/ tunes for people that have tuner: $225. add about $400 for the tuner, and you are abouve the $600 mark. i dont think it is getting gouged. you might be able to buy the tuner cheaper somewhere if you have the "hook-up" but it is a competetive price, and all comes from the same place, so if there are any problems, it is an easy call to one company. search near and far on the web, and waste several hours trying to find a slightly better deal, or just go ahead and get it all in one place. thats what i would do. whats your time worth? mine is not worth a few hours to save $20. yeah you might get lucky and find a place cheaper in just a few minutes, but maybe not. i personally think that $600 is a real competetive price. just get it all at once.

this commodity (Performance Tuners) and their current pricing structure has left me sctratching my head . . .

how the hell can they hold their pricing without illegal collusion among the various competitors?

And who's code is it anyway? Are they paying a licence fee to Ford?

Turbo 05 · Aug 20, 2005

how the hell can they hold their pricing without illegal collusion among the various competitors?

it's how most business are run, most buisness's sell simular products for the same price, who sets the price.. well that a economic lesson, supply and demand, so for the tunes we set all the different tuners prices based on the fact that they offer tunes for x dollars and we are will to pay that if we wen't they would probably lower the price, they dont have to conspire to figure that out

And who's code is it anyway? Are they paying a licence fee to Ford?

that doesn't make any sence, the manufacters of the Tuners (predetor/sct), programmed devices to make changes to files in your cars computer, once you buy the car ford could care less what you do with it, why would they want compensation for you changing computer peramiters on your car that you own?

shooterm1 · Aug 20, 2005

Turbo 05 said:
that doesn't make any sense, the manufacters of the Tuners (predetor/sct), programmed devices to make changes to files in your cars computer, once you buy the car ford could care less what you do with it, why would they want compensation for you changing computer peramiters on your car that you own?

are you speaking from insider industry knowledge or speculating??

and if all they're doing is 'flipping switches' then why does it cost so much?

Blk05Retro · Aug 20, 2005

shooterm1 said:
are you speaking from insider industry knowledge or speculating??

and if all they're doing is 'flipping switches' then why does it cost so much?

They have to recoup all there cost in the reverse engineering of the computer. Ford is not going to give them any code; they have to disassemble it and find out where values can be changed and what the effects are. This can become a very tedious task; I had to do it for a custom application that had the source code lost once.

Zodiac · Aug 20, 2005

Blk05Retro said:
They have to recoup all there cost in the reverse engineering of the computer. Ford is not going to give them any code; they have to disassemble it and find out where values can be changed and what the effects are. This can become a very tedious task; I had to do it for a custom application that had the source code lost once.

Yeah, if you've ever looked any kind of coding, even for upper lever computer funtions its a bi*** to go back and dissemble other peoples codes sometimes. It can become VERY tedious tracing ends and loops and what not. I cant even being to imagine the kind of stuff that goes into the computer on a car. Geeze. So theres that, then you're pretty much paying for the privelage to be using the codes.. in a way its like paying for the BMW or Mercedes name sometimes.

shooterm1 · Aug 20, 2005

true * but,

Zodiac said:
if you've ever looked any kind of coding, even for upper lever computer funtions its a bi*** to go back and dissemble other peoples codes sometimes. It can become VERY tedious tracing ends and loops and what not. I cant even being to imagine the kind of stuff that goes into the computer on a car. Geeze. So there's that, then you're pretty much paying for the privelage to be using the codes.. in a way its like paying for the BMW or Mercedes name sometimes.

I know a little about the process, enough to know that they dont have re-write it all from scratch.

Prediction: without some real {(serious)} competition driving prices downward, the Pirates & the Bootleggers will enter thier market before very long ...
Market forces are implacable.

Blk05Retro · Aug 21, 2005

You are correct. I would imagine that there are companies that are taking the Diablo and Xcal apart and duplicating what has already been accomplished. That is one of the problems with first to market, but they already have a head start.

duner · Aug 21, 2005

shooterm1 said:
Prediction: without some real {(serious)} competition driving prices downward, the Pirates & the Bootleggers will enter thier market before very long ...
Market forces are implacable.

These tuner devices and custom tunes have been around for a while. This is not something new that came along just for the '05.

Anyone who would use a “bootlegged or pirated” tuner and tuning device is asking for serious trouble. When I get a tune for my car, it only comes from a proven source. This means someone who has done the testing and engineering to ensure the quality and safety of the device and the tune. This costs money.

shooterm1 · Aug 21, 2005

Regardless,

duner said:
Anyone who would use a “bootlegged or pirated” tuner and tuning device is asking for serious trouble. When I get a tune for my car, it only comes from a proven source. This means someone who has done the testing and engineering to ensure the quality and safety of the device and the tune. This costs money.

Reguardless of how you feel about the end product, bootlegging of software/DVD's/ect is a natural outgrowth of a static pricing structure being manipulated by the distributor.

* has anyone else noted that the price of Tuners for trucks and 'grocery-getters' is much softer than the same product for ~hot~ cars like ours?

Sure, lots of discounts right? Its demand that allows them to maintain the MSRP on the `05 Tunes ... we are in effect subsidizing the rest of their product pricing.

But it cant go on forever.

example: here's an excerpt from an ebay ad by one of their So. Cal retailers.

>>>> you can see that they are working hard to get around the distributor's mandated MSRP >>>> !!!!!

New in Box From Superchips

Ford Max Micro Tuner Part Number: #1755

PRICED TOO HIGH?

WE WILL BEAT ANY ADVERTISED PRICE ON THIS ITEM!!

Guaranteed!!!

EMAIL or CALL US IF YOU SEE THIS PART FOR LESS!!!

Ask about our car-club and forum discounts!!! They apply to eBay Sales!!!

When using the checkout type in $103.00 in the "discounts" box and receive your INSTANT $103 REBATE!!!

Something's got to give, * and soon *

(and the Tuners for trucks and 'grocery-getters' btw require the same R&D and testing as the new Mustangs)

duner · Aug 21, 2005

Wow nice responce very convincing. Maybe all of you guys should quit buying these devices. That will teach them.

shooterm1 · Aug 21, 2005

duner said:
Wow nice responce very convincing*. Maybe all of you guys should quit buying these devices.

I have resisted that urge pretty well ................. so far,

* (I strongly suspect that you're unconvinced though)

duner · Aug 21, 2005

shooterm1 said:
I have resisted that urge pretty well ................. so far,

* (I strongly suspect that you're unconvinced though)

They are expensive to be sure. My point was people are paying the big bucks that the companies are charging. What is their motivation to charge less? They know that the GT is one of the hottest cars out there and people are all horny for them and their performance goodies.

The price will eventually go down. The prices on the Predator for the Cobra have come down from when they were first released.

BTW I purchased my Predator used.

05 GT Stang · Aug 21, 2005

well, with all the BS aside, i decided to buy both CAI and Tuner from JLT. Thanks guys (i guess)

duner · Aug 21, 2005

05 GT Stang said:
well, with all the BS aside, i decided to buy both CAI and Tuner from JLT. Thanks guys (i guess)

Cool.

Let us know your impressions after you install the CAI and the tune.

05 GT Stang · Aug 27, 2005

first impressions are- the car definetly has more pep and less hesitation. However, the two tunes i recieved with don't let me edit the other options (turn trac control off, rev limiter, etc) unless i'm not doing something right? It doesn't ask me to enter opt parameters like the sct manual says it might. Any ideas?

Jenns01TA · Aug 27, 2005

The end result no matter what is Supply and Demand. It is an economic rule that cannot be broken. Plus, you have to keep in mind R&D recoup on the part of the initial vendors. Many that follow do not have to go through the degree of development and research to produce a product.

Time and an influx of additional tuner products will drive the prices down. However, sometimes, you get what you pay for. And, customer service with interactive foums and Q&A mean a lot in my book. So DiabloSport and SCT are pretty high in my book.

Jenn

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