Callin all mustang expertts! [esp 351 owners]

dkhl said:

I'm planning on overhauling a GT / LX 5.0L from the '87-'93 body year as soon as I can find the perfect candidate...

I want to drop a 351 with a brand new transmission... I just have a few questions...


1. Will I be able to use the my current exhaust setup (bassani) with the 351?

2. How bad will my gas mileage will be?

3. If I decide to stroke it with a 408 kit, how much litres will that make it? how much power will I be looking at?

4. Can I super/turbocharge a 408 stroker?

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1. You will have to get new Headers 2.Not bad as long has you are not always smashing down gas pedal 3.Around 6.4 liters, if built with good internals and intake,heads you can reach around 460hp to 500hp. My friends car makes 506hp to rear wheels with a 408. He spent alot of time researching parts and on tunning. 4.Supercharge yes ( I'm in the proscess of building a DART 351 block stroked to 393 or 408 and plan on running a YSi supercharger on it) If you plan on a Turbo it is better to stay with smaller cubes 302,306,331,347. I talked to alot of Buick Grand National guys and people on Turbomustangs.com and that was thier take on it. Turbos just operate better with smaller cubic inches. Hope this helps

408=6.687 liters or 6.7.

408 + blower/turbo = too much horse power for stock block.

hllon4whls said:

408 + blower/turbo = too much horse power for stock block.

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100% true...

dkhl said:

Can I super/turbocharge a 408 stroker?

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Depends what you're goals are. A well thought out 408 can make enough n/a power for most people. My #'s in sig are with a pump gas 418 (6.9litre) with box stock parts. As far as exhaust you might have to rig up a connection to the h-pipe depending on headers, my kooks would not fit a 3" prochamber h-pipe for long tubes on a 302, they were to wide for it. The rest of the exhaust should really be upgraded to 3" for that level of power.
mike.

Sorry to kinda hi jack but its relevant to the subject at hand. Lets say I got the 351 out of a van or whatever and mildly built it up, then put a blower/nitrous on it. Is that too much power for the stock block? And then if it does blow, a sportsman block or something would be a direct swap in, ie: wouldnt need a new distributer/headers or anything right?

BlueOvalStangGT said:

And then if it does blow, a sportsman block or something would be a direct swap in, ie: wouldnt need a new distributer/headers or anything right?

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If you gonna spend the money on a sportsman just go with a dart. And yes, whatever doesnt get ruined when the block lets go is interchangeable.
mike.

IMO, there's no better way to make power than with a 351W swap....think about it...you START with more cubes than a stroked 302 can even have, and if you get a Dart block or equivelent race block you can get an easy 426ci out of it!! That's big block cubes out of a small block...you just can't beat it.

A couple tips i can give, is if you wanna do this RIGHT, and i mean really make the best of this swap...do a few or all of the following:

1. Get aluminum heads. That'll drop an easy 50lbs off the motor. Extra weight is one of the few setbacks to a 351W swap, but this helps a lot.

2. Get a tubular K member and A arms. This can get expensive quick, but if the budget allows for it, you'll save a solid 100lbs with this and the aluminum heads and you'll easily weigh in right next to an iron-headed 302 with stock K member. This way, you get all the cubes and power with no added weight.

3. Get solid drop-height motor mounts. This is for a couple good reasons. For starters, they're stronger than the rubber style and you'll really feel the power from your motor. 2, if you're going EFI, hood clearance is gonna be an issue if you don't already have a cowl hood, and the dropped height will help get it lower in the engine bay. 3, the 351W has a bit of a taller block (not sure exactly how much) but either way, that adds up to higher center of gravity and poorer handlling. Lowing the motor in the engine bay will make up for this.

After that, your setup will easily crush a comparable 347 combo if built nicely, i.e. good heads/cam/intake, and it'll do it with the stock 351ci. If you wanna go supercharger, my suggestion would be to get a roots style supercharger and build it up like a Lightning block. Speaking of Lightnings....a LOT of the earlier Lightning motor toys will work with your 351W, which means there's actually a good amount of goodies out there to pick from.


About that hood clearance....if you get the dropped motor mounts and you decide to go carbureted...if you build a mild 351W, you can get an Edelbrock Performer intake and take your pic on carbs but DON'T run a carb spacer, then get a recessed breather similar to the old stock snorkle breathers, then put a round K+N filter in that to make up for the air flow and you'll clear the stock hood with ease. I had a 351 under my stock hood with that setup, but i used a Weiland triangle breather.

Click the 351 link in my sig

I used 88 convertible mounts for my swap. I managed to get the engine under the stock hood with an edelbrock performer EFI 5.8 intake. The vert mounts are far better than standard mounts + they are half the size and less expensive tough combo to beat.

85_SS_302_Coupe said:

This way, you get all the cubes and power with no added weight.

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With the tubular k-member and aluminum heads on the 302 my car weighed in at 3060lbs w/o driver. With the 351 I removed the efi stuff, sway bar, dog bone, quad shocks, crash sensors, cruise control, inner fenders, ect.... and the car weighs in now at around 3150 w/o driver. The motor is heavier, rotating assembly is heavier, fuel system is ALOT bigger, exhaust is bigger. So not exactly the same weight.
mike.

85_SS_302_Coupe said:

3. Get solid drop-height motor mounts.

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Now this also depends on headers, I would have loved to run drop mounts but with 1 7/8 long tubes with a 3 1/2 collector my headers are only about 3-4" off of the ground with my energy suspension mounts. I could raise the front of the car up some, but I dont think I would like the look. Here is a pic, not very good but will give you an idea.
mike.

http://www.strokerpower.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=152&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

one for motor height too

http://www.strokerpower.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=151&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

5.0 HOtrain said:

With the tubular k-member and aluminum heads on the 302 my car weighed in at 3060lbs w/o driver. With the 351 I removed the efi stuff, sway bar, dog bone, quad shocks, crash sensors, cruise control, inner fenders, ect.... and the car weighs in now at around 3150 w/o driver. The motor is heavier, rotating assembly is heavier, fuel system is ALOT bigger, exhaust is bigger. So not exactly the same weight.
mike.



Now this also depends on headers, I would have loved to run drop mounts but with 1 7/8 long tubes with a 3 1/2 collector my headers are only about 3-4" off of the ground with my energy suspension mounts. I could raise the front of the car up some, but I dont think I would like the look. Here is a pic, not very good but will give you an idea.
mike.

http://www.strokerpower.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=152&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

one for motor height too

http://www.strokerpower.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=151&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

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I've always read that a 351W is only around 100lbs heavier than an iron headed 302....what kind of tubular K member did you/are you using? Doesnt sound like it dropped much weight at all. Seems like your car has some weight somewhere else that's keeping it from dropping some lbs. I'd still say that if you can drop weight somewhere else, it's still not very hard to compete with a 302 car in the weight dept. Your car is only 90lbs heavier now....that could be the difference of a full tank of gas or something like your K member isnt all that light.

85_SS_302_Coupe said:

I've always read that a 351W is only around 100lbs heavier than an iron headed 302....what kind of tubular K member did you/are you using? Doesnt sound like it dropped much weight at all. Seems like your car has some weight somewhere else that's keeping it from dropping some lbs. I'd still say that if you can drop weight somewhere else, it's still not very hard to compete with a 302 car in the weight dept. Your car is only 90lbs heavier now....that could be the difference of a full tank of gas or something like your K member isnt all that light.

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I have the D&D k-member/a-arms. Had it with both motors. I did have a full tank of gas when I weighed it with the 302, and half a tank with the windsor. Like I mentioned before, forged rotating ass is heavier, fuel system is heavier, msd box and coil are a few lbs, exhaust is heaviers, flywheel is heavier ect.....
mike.