Cam Question? please help
- Thread starter Critter_04
- Start date
A cam would not be ideal for your car right now...you don't have any mods to help support it like heads...
Get some gears: 373's is the best all around gear in my opinion whether it be a 5spd or auto...
Or a Edelbrock Performer Intake but the gears would give you a much better bang for your buck...
Get some gears: 373's is the best all around gear in my opinion whether it be a 5spd or auto...
Or a Edelbrock Performer Intake but the gears would give you a much better bang for your buck...
thumper460
Founding Member
Yep on the gears...!! go to a TFS1 cam..the split grind will work good with the stock heads!! you wont realize the full potential from any cam untill you open up the exhaust.. But it will show good gains and you'll like it!! Summit cataloge for pricing...cool??
Just me.......................
Thumper
Just me.......................
Thumper
DMAN302
My mom says thanks for the pearl necklace.
No heads=no need for cam.
The car will not gain anything with the stock heads in place, best bet is head upgrade and even keeping stock cam, stock cam is acutally quite good performer.
The car will not gain anything with the stock heads in place, best bet is head upgrade and even keeping stock cam, stock cam is acutally quite good performer.
thumper460
Founding Member
Actually the cam is the key to performance... MORE so than Heads!! and the smaller grinds ( FMS E, B, F and the TFS 1 and 2s) are ground FOR stock heads!! The heart of the engine, or Brain IS camshaft... NOT Heads!! you can get 400 HP with stock heads and the right camshaft and induction!! There is too much BS put on needing heads to go fast!! Or the heads NEED to be the first mod, befor the car will go faster... sorry but.. cam and induction.. there is a LOT of power in the stock heads, befor you NEED to step up!! ( however by todays standards it seems the othere way) !! YOU will enjoy the addl power from the cam... and yes, IT wont be as effective as some ported or aftermarket heads... But the POWER will be there with the right cam choice!! Get the gears.. fuel system adjusted correct, timing ,and the TFS1 and He will rock!! 
Just me..........................
Thumper
Just me..........................
Thumper
EDC
Founding Member
thumper460 said:
Nope... wrong... erroneous...
Dollar for dollar, a set of aftermarket heads and the stock cam will make a higher percentage of HP improvement over a change in cam with stock heads...
FACT!
Really?
Let's see....
Three cams with identical intake and exhaust durations.
Two cams with differences in the intake and exaust durations.
Totally different timing events for all three.
All different lifts.
Yeah.. good idea...
At least "this" you learned from someone...
SHOW ME!
Cam change only.. 400 HP?
BULL DUNG...
Gears then LT's and exhaust, an intake next and then some aftermarket heads... That's the way to a GOOD build up...
One of the last items should be the cam...
No... not by today's standards...
It's a proven concept...
Better heads make for better power increases...
Ah... you admit it "won't be as effective as aftermarket heads"...
There is a light at the end of the tunnel...
Get the gears.. fuel system adjusted correct, timing ,and the TFS1 and He will rock!!
Just me..........................
Thumper
I repeat...
Gears then LT's and exhaust, an intake next and then some aftermarket heads... That's the way to a GOOD build up...
Ed
Ed you know to much
You got any ideas on keeping my valvetrain from being noisy?...It has gotten noiser the last couple weeks...the combo has been running for about a month and a half...Is it just the lockdown nuts on the Scorpions not holding...I tightened them till they made a "pop" sound...
You got any ideas on keeping my valvetrain from being noisy?...It has gotten noiser the last couple weeks...the combo has been running for about a month and a half...Is it just the lockdown nuts on the Scorpions not holding...I tightened them till they made a "pop" sound...
EDC
Founding Member
5spd GT said:Ed you know to much
You got any ideas on keeping my valvetrain from being noisy?...It has gotten noiser the last couple weeks...the combo has been running for about a month and a half...Is it just the lockdown nuts on the Scorpions not holding...I tightened them till they made a "pop" sound...
Call tomorrow...
Between 1pm and 4pm EST..
Ed
I will just never understand why guys want to put a "bigger" cam in a stock headed/intake/geared car? sounds cool- yes goes faster- not likely. Do your heads and intake and then pick a cam bro,you'll be much happier.
If I was where you are now (and we all were at some point) and didnt want to get into the motor yet I would do the rest of the exhaust,gears,pullies,an intake/TB/MAF and maybe a set of 1.72 rockers.You could just do those mods and you wouldnt know it was the same car,add a 150hp shot of NOS and some drag radials to that and there isnt much you wouldnt outrun on the street that isnt a another mustang!!
If I was where you are now (and we all were at some point) and didnt want to get into the motor yet I would do the rest of the exhaust,gears,pullies,an intake/TB/MAF and maybe a set of 1.72 rockers.You could just do those mods and you wouldnt know it was the same car,add a 150hp shot of NOS and some drag radials to that and there isnt much you wouldnt outrun on the street that isnt a another mustang!!
thumper460
Founding Member
cam and stock heads...
Hi EDC how ya been?? I guess this is just another one of the Head things.. LOL !! I thought the guy wanted to know what cam and was he going to feel the power... NOT aftermarket VS stock or ported... how did THAT even get in there>>>??
buddy rawls
are we talking stock unported heads or ported stock (125cc cores) heads.
if you are talking ported stock heads,
The superstock guys are getting 475-525 hp out of a ported 125cc casting even retaining stock 1.78/1.46 valve sizes. depending on the casting, the finished inlet volume is around 144-150cc's.
please bare in mind these 289's doing this are running a 450 crfm autolite (64/65ford), 600 cfm autolite (64merc), 600 holley (85 5.0)
**If you are wanting stock unported heads check the stock guys. Ihave done a few combos that ran low low 12's with unported heads at 3000#. and these were basically 'throw together' motors. No special parts are weird items. usually turning less than 6000 or a just a tad higher
Ed ( who???) has done them. lots have done them. but its nothing new.
***When Superstock was not allowing ported heads, they here getting 375-400 hp still using the stock carbs.
with the valve train advances, now the stock class cars are getting close to 350 with 125cc heads.
getting a small block ford to run is not new to the 5.0 crowd. They were getting 400hp out of the 289's in 65 and 66 with ported stock heads and nice old school cams)
I have been involved in recent build-up of an oldschool motor using ported original gt40 heads ('66 vintage-over the counter ford parts) and we got 435hp with newer camming (flat tappet solid) compared to the 375 that the equal set-up was getting in the 60's
buddy
(Posted Corral 12/03 Power from ported and stock heads)
Just me..............................
Thumper
Hi EDC how ya been?? I guess this is just another one of the Head things.. LOL !! I thought the guy wanted to know what cam and was he going to feel the power... NOT aftermarket VS stock or ported... how did THAT even get in there>>>??
buddy rawls
are we talking stock unported heads or ported stock (125cc cores) heads.
if you are talking ported stock heads,
The superstock guys are getting 475-525 hp out of a ported 125cc casting even retaining stock 1.78/1.46 valve sizes. depending on the casting, the finished inlet volume is around 144-150cc's.
please bare in mind these 289's doing this are running a 450 crfm autolite (64/65ford), 600 cfm autolite (64merc), 600 holley (85 5.0)
**If you are wanting stock unported heads check the stock guys. Ihave done a few combos that ran low low 12's with unported heads at 3000#. and these were basically 'throw together' motors. No special parts are weird items. usually turning less than 6000 or a just a tad higher
Ed ( who???) has done them. lots have done them. but its nothing new.
***When Superstock was not allowing ported heads, they here getting 375-400 hp still using the stock carbs.
with the valve train advances, now the stock class cars are getting close to 350 with 125cc heads.
getting a small block ford to run is not new to the 5.0 crowd. They were getting 400hp out of the 289's in 65 and 66 with ported stock heads and nice old school cams)
I have been involved in recent build-up of an oldschool motor using ported original gt40 heads ('66 vintage-over the counter ford parts) and we got 435hp with newer camming (flat tappet solid) compared to the 375 that the equal set-up was getting in the 60's
buddy
(Posted Corral 12/03 Power from ported and stock heads)
Just me..............................
Thumper
EDC
Founding Member
thumper460 said:
Very busy...
Nah... It's fact versus fiction...
How??? Because a cylinder head change is a better VALUE for the power obtained vs a cam only change with stock heads (of any type)...
No difference in this person's case...
I know all about the NHRA S/S powerplants and packages and probably forgot more than you'll ever know about them. I have RACED in NHRA Stock and Super Stock. Have you???
There's a hell of a lot more than "stock" cylinder heads factor to take into consideration about the HP levels these engines obtain. Very expensive and high end componants. The pieces that are used to gather this kind HP have NOTHING whatsoever to do with this guy's particular project...
Stay on track...
Show real world examples.
From what your site shows, only the nitrous powered cars you worked with have shown ANY eleven or twelve second runs...
Power adders combos are useless for comparisions to this combo, let alone show any usefulness of the ported E7 packages.
Again... prove it...
I have multiple times....
Where's your proof?
Again... WTF does this have to do with THIS GUY'S PACKAGE??
Nothing!
Does he have $35,000 to throw into a "class" specific engine just to use the stock heads? Do you??
Dumb argument on your part...
And they got roughly 5-6 mpg.
They were never driven to and from the track.
Supe high compression ratios.
Race fuel.
No creature comforts...
All just more rhetoric to defend the use of stock heads???
If you HAVE TO run stock heads for class rules, the prices to do them correctly are extremely high.
How many NMRA Factory Stock heads have you done? Care to guess what a extremely competitve set cost? Sure as hell not $699 like yours...
Engine dyno HP...
Again.. ask about the COST vs HP obtained...
Sorry... money wasted...
JUST FACTS....
Ed
Fishhawk
New Member
There's nothing wrong with adding a cam without upgrading the heads, as long as you have a good exhaust system. The next step would be induction then heads. You just don't want to get to crazy with the cam. You will notice a nice increase in power with a cam, headers, intake. However, you change the heads, and things really wake up.Critter_04 said:
I think your all thinking way to far ahead of this guy.
Yes adding heads/intake will give him a better gain but alot of poeple dont have the cash to throw around like some of you high rollers here.
I think I will second the guy who said that cam is the heart of an engine. If you analyze the statment its true. Heads dont do much without cam. And whoever argues either way on this subject is wrong. You need(or should I say would want) a bigger cam to need bigger heads and bigger heads to put the bigger cam to full potential.. And if you have the money to do both then why not go and do it all at once.... Then you would need to redo the whole combo. Because you dont want big heads/cam with stock headers/TB/MAF/ injectors/exhaust.... You would need all this but some people start in different places.
This is suporting both of you.
I think somebody should do an experiment on this....... Throw a ungodly large cam in an otherwise stock engine. And see what the results are. And do the same with heads. I am curious to see what the results would be.
Yes adding heads/intake will give him a better gain but alot of poeple dont have the cash to throw around like some of you high rollers here.
I think I will second the guy who said that cam is the heart of an engine. If you analyze the statment its true. Heads dont do much without cam. And whoever argues either way on this subject is wrong. You need(or should I say would want) a bigger cam to need bigger heads and bigger heads to put the bigger cam to full potential.. And if you have the money to do both then why not go and do it all at once.... Then you would need to redo the whole combo. Because you dont want big heads/cam with stock headers/TB/MAF/ injectors/exhaust.... You would need all this but some people start in different places.
This is suporting both of you.
I think somebody should do an experiment on this....... Throw a ungodly large cam in an otherwise stock engine. And see what the results are. And do the same with heads. I am curious to see what the results would be.
giddyup306
Founding Member
- Oct 22, 2002
- 3,041
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bluevenom867
I will have images of molesting stuffed animals in
Just put 1.72 rocker on stock heads and leave the cam alone.I you get new heads later just sell the rockers for $100 bucks or what ever.
