Cam seized, timing chain broke, < 10k miles???

pwnoz · Nov 7, 2008

soo, i just picked up a 2002 panoz esperante on monday (which has the NA 4.6L 4v cobra motor in it). i've driven it less than 200 miles mostly on the highway, haven't been beating on it or anything, the car has less than 10,000 miles still. check engine light comes on while i'm on the highway yesterday, i get to my destination (can't do anything about the cel yet) and the next time i start it the car runs for a few seconds, sputters and dies. there's a sort of crunchy sound coming from the intake manifold/valve train area and won't run.

took it to ford today and they took apart the valve train and said the right intake cam was seized which caused the timing chain to break which of course leads to all sorts of awesome damage to the heads and what not. they're pulling the motor now to see if they can figure out what happened..

have you guys ever heard of something like this happening on such a low mileage motor?? what could cause something like that? (it's had regular oil changes every 2-3k miles, just had one before i got it, didn't seem like it was burning oil and the oil level was correct after the thing died). ideas??

here's a couple pics of her from the few days i've had her...

Uncle Meat · Nov 7, 2008

Sounds to me as if there may have been a manufacturing or assembly defect. With less than 10K on the odo, unless you were beating the piss out of it a major valve train failure is highly unlikely.

This will be fixed under warranty I hope?

U.M.

tag4car · Nov 8, 2008

beautiful machine there, keep us up to date on what u hear

pwnoz · Nov 10, 2008

Uncle Meat said:
Sounds to me as if there may have been a manufacturing or assembly defect. With less than 10K on the odo, unless you were beating the piss out of it a major valve train failure is highly unlikely.

This will be fixed under warranty I hope?

U.M.

the car hasn't been beaten on from everything i know. i hadn't beaten on it at all since i got it. it's never been tracked or raced and the panoz factory did a full check up on the car and reported that it was free from abuse.

well, i have a warranty through the place that i bought it luckily, so i'm covered in any case. but panoz's warranty is only a 3 year/36,000 mile so it's been out of warranty for a couple years. i may still call them and complain a bit and see what they say. might just end up getting better heads and redoing the whole valvetrain since some of it needs replacing anyway.

nothing new to report yet.. but i'll keep you posted.

pwnoz · Nov 11, 2008

well, this is great. the place i bought it from "knows" that i was abusing the car and that's why the timing chain broke (even though that's not even remotely close to what happened.....). so they're denying the warranty claim based on their intuition.

ford got the motor apart today and don't really have any more information. they know the timing chain broke and that caused damage to the heads and pistons. they think that the intake cam may have seized for a moment which caused the timing chain to break, but they don't know why the intake cam would have seized (maybe oil starved, but they don't know why that would have happened). and they're not even sure it was the intake cam seizing that caused the problem (as it's moving freely now).

any advice??

hotcobra03 · Nov 11, 2008

That sucks.you might have read my novel.my sprockets broke but it was hunan error.best of luck

pwnoz · Nov 11, 2008

hotcobra03 said:
That sucks.you might have read my novel.my sprockets broke but it was hunan error.best of luck

yeah, i read through some of that. sucks.

i haven't touched the motor though. it's all stock. heck i've only looked at it a couple of times

hotcobra03 · Nov 11, 2008

They other guy from one 4 the book he got a new long block pm him maybe he will sell

pwnoz · Dec 28, 2008

so i got the car back. they replaced the head, valvetrain and pistons on that side. i've driven it a few hundred miles since then and the check engine light comes on again.. dtc is 5284 which is the oil pressure switch. what do you think that could mean? the oil pressure was reading fine when it came on.

pwnoz · Dec 28, 2008

nevermind on that dtc. i did the self-diagnostics and i guess that code pretty much always displays. actually got a scanner and found the code is P0442 (evap system small leak). gas cap is on, maybe it's the filler neck? i know the panozs tend to have some issues with wider tires and their filler necks. hmm.. anyway, for now, it appears unrelated to this other issue.

hotcobra03 · Dec 28, 2008

po 442

PCM Diagnostics Trouble Code (DTC) Index

DTC Description Source Action
P0442 Small leak detected in EVAP system (As small as 1.02 mm [0.040 inch]) PCM Go To Pinpoint Test A .
P0455 Major leak or no flow detected PCM Go To Pinpoint Test B .
P0457 Check for missing or leaking fuel filter cap PCM Go To Pinpoint Test A .
P1443 Very small or no purge flow detected PCM Go To Pinpoint Test B .
P1450 Excessive vacuum detected in the fuel tank PCM Go To Pinpoint Test C .
— Any other PCM DTC PCM REFER to the Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PC/ED) manual.
PINPOINT TEST A: DTC P0442 SMALL LEAK IN EVAP SYSTEM
Test Step Result / Action to Take
NOTE: Condition P0442 DTC set: less than 0.625 kPa (2.5 inches H 2 O) bleed-up over 15 seconds at 75% fuel fill. Vapor generation limit: more than 0.625 kPa (2.5 inches H 2 O) over 120 seconds.
A1 VISUALLY INSPECT THE COMPONENTS FOR SMALL LEAKS
Check for the presence of a fuel filler cap. Do not tighten or check for correct installation at this time.
Verify the canister vent solenoid is correctly seated on the EVAP canister.
Check for cut or loose connections to fuel vapor hoses, tubes and connections in the following locations:
EVAP canister to EVAP canister purge valve
EVAP canister to fuel vapor vent valve assembly
fuel vapor control valve tube assembly to fuel tank
Check the fuel filler pipe for damage.
Is a concern with a hose, tube, connection or valve visually evident?
Yes
REPAIR or INSTALL new components as necessary.GO to A2 .

No
GO to A2 .
A2 CHECK AT THE EVAP TEST PORT FOR SMALL SYSTEM LEAKS
Disconnect and plug the evaporative emission return tube at the intake manifold.
Complete the evaporative emission system leak test. Refer to Evaporative Emission System Leak Test in this section.
Does the system pass the leak test?
Yes
GO to A3 .

No
GO to A4 .
A3 VISUALLY INSPECT THE FUEL FILLER CAP
Visually inspect the fuel filler cap for damage.
Is the fuel filler cap damaged?
Yes
INSTALL a new fuel filler cap. GO to A4 .

No
GO to A4 .
A4 CHECK FOR SMALL LEAKS AT THE FUEL FILLER CAP AND EVAP TEST PORT
Connect the Evaporative Emission System Leak Tester to the fuel filler pipe.
Key in ON position.
Close the canister vent solenoid. Refer to Canister Vent Solenoid Closing Procedure in this section.
Pressurize the EVAP system to 3.48 kPa (14 inches H 2 O).
Using the ultrasonic leak detector, check the fuel filler cap and EVAP test port for leaks.
Is a leak detected?
Yes
REPAIR or INSTALL new components as necessary. GO to A5 .

No
INSTALL the fuel filler cap. CARRY OUT the evaporative emission system leak test. REFER to Evaporative Emission System Leak Test in this section. If the system passes the leak test, CARRY OUT the evaporative emissions repair verification drive cycle. REFER to Evaporative Emission Repair Verification Drive Cycle in this section.
A5 CHECK FOR CONCERN OTHER THAN THE FUEL FILLER CAP
Refer to previous test results.
Did the system pass the evaporative emission system leak test carried out in pinpoint test Step A2?
Yes
CARRY OUT the evaporative emission system leak test. REFER to Evaporative Emission System Leak Test in this section. If the system passes the leak test, CARRY OUT the evaporative emission repair verification drive cycle. REFER to Evaporative Emission Repair Verification Drive Cycle in this section.

No
INSTALL the fuel filler cap. GO to A6 .
A6 CHECK FOR SMALL LEAK WITH TESTER SET AT FILL POSITION
Connect the Evaporative Emission System Leak Tester to the EVAP test port.
Key in ON position.
Close the canister vent solenoid. Refer to Canister Vent Solenoid Closing Procedure in this section.
Turn the selector on the Evaporative Emission System Leak Tester to the FILL position.
Pressurize the EVAP system to 3.48 kPa (14 inches H 2 O).
Does the pressure on the EVAP system hold between 3.43 kPa and 3.53 kPa (13.80 inches and 14.20 inches H 2 O)?
Yes
GO to A7 .

No
DISCONTINUE pressurizing the system. GO to A8 .
A7 CHECK FOR LEAKS IN THE COMPLETE EVAP SYSTEM
Connect the Evaporative Emission System Leak Tester to the EVAP test port.
Key in ON position.
Close the canister vent solenoid. Refer to Canister Vent Solenoid Closing Procedure in this section.
Pressurize the EVAP system to 3.48 kPa (14 inches H 2 O).
Using the ultrasonic leak detector, check the following EVAP system locations:
EVAP return tube to EVAP canister purge valve
EVAP canister purge valve to EVAP canister— canister vent solenoid assembly
EVAP canister — canister vent solenoid assembly to fuel tank
fuel filler cap and fuel filler tube
Is a leak detected at EVAP return tube, EVAP canister purge outlet tube or EVAP canister tube or associated hose?
Yes
REPAIR or INSTALL new components as necessary. CARRY OUT the evaporative emission system leak test. REFER to Evaporative Emission System Leak Test in this section. If the system passes the leak test, CARRY OUT the evaporative emissions repair verification drive cycle. REFER to Evaporative Emission Repair Verification Drive Cycle in this section.

No
DISCONTINUE pressurizing the system. GO to A8 .
A8 CHECK FOR SMALL LEAK FROM THE EVAP RETURN TUBE TO THE FUEL VAPOR TEE
Disconnect the EVAP canister purge outlet tube at the fuel vapor tee. Plug the opening in the EVAP canister purge outlet tube.
Connect the Evaporative Emission System Leak Tester to the EVAP test port.
Pressurize the EVAP system to 3.48 kPa (14 inches H 2 O).
Using the ultrasonic leak detector, check the EVAP system from the intake manifold to the EVAP canister purge outlet tube.
Is a leak detected?
Yes
REPAIR or INSTALL new components as necessary. REPEAT Step A6 to verify the repair. GO to A9 .

No
GO to A9 .
A9 CHECK FOR SMALL LEAK BETWEEN EVAP CANISTER AND FUEL TANK FILLER PIPE
Connect the Evaporative Emission System Leak Tester to the fuel filler pipe.
Transfer the plug from the EVAP canister purge outlet tube to the fuel vapor tee.
Turn the Evaporative Emission System Leak Tester selector to the FILL position.
Key in ON position.
Close the canister vent solenoid. Refer to Canister Vent Solenoid Closing Procedure in this section.
Pressurize the EVAP system to 3.48 kPa (14 inches H 2 O).
Using the ultrasonic leak detector, check the fuel vapor control valve tube to the fuel tank for leaks. Check the fuel tank pressure sensor, fuel vapor control valve tube and the fuel filler pipe. Check fuel tank to EVAP canister - canister vent solenoid.
Is a leak detected?
Yes
REPAIR or INSTALL new components as necessary.

GO to A10 .

No
GO to A10 .
A10 CHECK EVAP SYSTEM AT FUEL FILLER PIPE
Reconnect the EVAP canister purge outlet tube to the fuel vapor tee.
Complete the evaporative emission system leak test. Refer to Evaporative Emission System Leak Test in this section.
Does the EVAP system pass the leak test?
Yes
RESTORE the system to normal operation. CARRY OUT the evaporative emission system leak test. REFER to Evaporative Emission System Leak Test in this section. If the system passes the leak test, CARRY OUT the evaporative emissions repair verification drive cycle. REFER to Evaporative Emission Repair Verification Drive Cycle in this section.

No
GO to A6 .

hotcobra03 · Dec 28, 2008

evap

Item Part Number Description
1 9030 Fuel filler cap
2 9B593 Fuel vapor vent valve
3 9C052 Fuel tank pressure sensor
4 9C915 Evaporative emission canister purge valve
5 9F945 Canister vent solenoid
6 9D653 Evaporative emission canister
7 9002 Fuel tank
8 9B190 Fuel vapor control valve
9 9189 Fuel filler pipe check valve

Cam seized, timing chain broke, < 10k miles???

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Cam seized, timing chain broke, < 10k miles???

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