Can I beat a Firebird (LS1)?

01mgvert · Aug 8, 2004

I raised this question in another thread but I wanted to reach a broader audience. What do you think?

The stock 2002 Firebird has 310 bhp and 340 ft/lbs torque and weighs 3341 lbs. My modded Mustang has 310 bhp and 360 ft/lbs torque and weighs 3429 lbs. Even if the horsepower is underrated for the Firebird, it still runs 5.1 seconds from 0-60 mph. With my mods and 4.10s, I am able to match that time. My point is this: It is no longer a one-sided race; I have a chance of winning or at least staying even from stoplight to stoplight (provided the Firebird is stock).

To keep this tech, what additional mods would I need to convincingly beat a Firebird (LS1)?

StangFreak32 · Aug 8, 2004

did u mean rwhp.....and even then looking at ur mods there is no way u have that much hp...and im going to go with no u cant beat him

spikeGT_99 · Aug 8, 2004

you ought to beat him pretty bad with all those mods, i barely lost to one about a week ago with my limited mods, and i was actually ahead untill i hit 3rd gear and then he pulled ahead by about a car length. granted my car isnt a vert or an auto but id eat LS1's for lunch with just gears so you shouldnt have any problems

Spike

try2catchmy99 · Aug 8, 2004

You should be able to stop light to stop light . I beat 99 up (ls1) z28, SS, trans ams at the 8th with my mods and thats without the X pipe.

GTsleeper · Aug 8, 2004

StangFreak32 said:
did u mean rwhp.....and even then looking at ur mods there is no way u have that much hp...and im going to go with no u cant beat him

Come on StangFreak look at what he has;

Diablo Predator Performance Tuner
Steeda Underdrive Pulleys
Hooker Ceramic Coated LT Headers
Hooker O/R X-Pipe
Accufab 75 mm Throttle Body(
Accufab 75 mm Plenum
C & L TrueFlow Inlet Pipe
K & N Filter (air silencer shortened)
FRPP 4.10 gears
Steeda Lower Control Arms
Steeda Full-Length Subframe Connectors
Steeda Strut Tower Brace
Autopower 4-point Roll Bar

The 01 is already hitting 224 rwhp if you add a whole exhaust meaning LT's and x-pipe. Plus TB/Plenum, Inlet Pipe, and K&N his rwhp would be just that. Add in the suspension with the gears he has and he better be able to beat a stock 02 Firebird. The stock 02 Firebird is 310 hp not rear wheel. With the mods he has he should be right around 300 rwhp I believe every vehicle is different. Either way the suspension he has with gears light to light he should be able to take the 02 exspecially if he had drag radials.

screaminr1 · Aug 8, 2004

You guys are crazy. Where is the dyno results. If all you doing is taking the advertised alleged hp gains given by the parts manufacturers... I have to respectfully say, NO! Those are all theoretical and contentious on other mods. I think I saw one guy say he could beat an ss and he only has gears and bolt ons. I'm sorry but z28 probably, but not a firebird in my opinion. I have nos gears and all those mods plus a few more and I can win but it's not a blow away. Lets help each other and try to stick to facts and not hear say, ahh? A good rule of thumb, take it to the track.

01mgvert · Aug 8, 2004

A stock GT has 260 bhp which amounts to 208 rwhp for an automatic (20% power loss) and 218 rwhp for a manual (16% power loss). When I added LT headers and an o/r x-pipe, I had my car dyno tuned using my Diablo Predator. After making some adjustments to the a/f ratio on the Predator's performanc tune, the car dynoed at 249.2 rwhp and 289.7 ft/lbs torque. Taking into consideration the 20% power loss for an automatic, that means I'm making 312 bhp and 362 ft/lbs torque at the crank.

I know that the G-Tech performance meter doesn't carry much weight, but I have been able to bring my car from a 6.1 second 0-60 mph (stock) to 5.1 seconds (current mods). My best 1/8 mile time with the G-Tech was 8.626 @ 80.16 mph. Using an online calculator, that 1/8 mile time should result in a 1/4 mile time of 13.49 seconds @ 101.00 mph. I know that a lot of this is theory but I want to be sure that I am at least going to be competitive.

My traction is pretty good with Steeda LCAs and Sumitomo tires. I've pretty much run out of performance bolt-ons. From what I read, an aftermarket MAF won't help much. I could, however, add a Magnaflow catback exhaust for an additional 8-10 rwhp. Any other suggestions?

fordnite302 · Aug 8, 2004

i have 4 friends with trans ams, one is a stock 02 ws6 he dynoed at 300rwhp the 1994 lt1 dynoed at 287rwhp, my friend with a 00 gt dynoed at 218rwhp, so no no chance.

XtorT'r · Aug 8, 2004

ok, ok ,ok.... you guys seem to not understang that the only reason you guys are taking them up to 60mph is that LS1's have a different final drive setup than ours. The second they get traction, your screwed.
With bolt ons' your only hold to take these guys is to be doing nothing but weight redutions and suspention mods. Hopefully you can get enough of a run on them before the catch up to you. Untill you have a bit more HP it's just a matter of time before they run your butt down, be it at 70 mph or 100mph try to make it 102 .

JBushman73 · Aug 8, 2004

Ageed. The answer is not even close. NO.

XtorT'r · Aug 8, 2004

Do you have a buddy that owns an ls1 and talks smack to you about your stang all the time?

01mgvert · Aug 8, 2004

fordnite302 said:
i have 4 friends with trans ams, one is a stock 02 ws6 he dynoed at 300rwhp the 1994 lt1 dynoed at 287rwhp, my friend with a 00 gt dynoed at 218rwhp, so no no chance.

300 rwhp? That's 357 bhp. The Standard Catalog of Firebirds rates the 2002 Firebird Trans Am with Ram Air (WS6) at 325 bhp (or 273 rwhp).

Anyone know that 1/4 mile time on a stock WS6?

Q's Stang · Aug 8, 2004

a stock ws6 pushing 300 at the wheels? i thought they were pushing like 315 at the flywheel and like 270 give or take in the rear wheels...?

and looking at the numbers...what else would be needed to take a LS1 after gears, full exhaust, pullies, dynotuned programmer, CAI, TB, & plenum? i figured all of those mods should bump up a auto GT anywhere from 250-270 at the wheels if its pushing close to 210 stock...

jbrown · Aug 8, 2004

300 rwhp? no way especially an auto, you need a power adder or engine work(heads or cams) to get 300 rwhp with a 99+ gt. I think an ls1 has 305 hp , 320 with the ram air, I think the final year(02 I believe) I think they went up to 315 no ram air, 330 with ram air. 01 mg vert I think you do have a chance though, stop light to stop light. If you had a 5 spd with your mods I would say definately you could take a stock ls1. I have never driven an auto gt but I know they are slower, I hear torque converters help out a lot. I would recomend the magnaflow catback to finish off your exhaust but do not expect to gain 10 hp at the wheels, more like 5hp. I raced an ls1 z28 from about 15 mph until about 65 mph, he pulled me half a car length, he had a 6 spd and said he had stuff done but didnt specify, I only had the triax, densecharger, and catback plus the heavy 18's.

01mgvert · Aug 8, 2004

jbrown said:
300 rwhp? no way especially an auto, you need a power adder or engine work(heads or cams) to get 300 rwhp with a 99+ gt. I think an ls1 has 305 hp , 320 with the ram air, I think the final year(02 I believe) I think they went up to 315 no ram air, 330 with ram air. 01 mg vert I think you do have a chance though, stop light to stop light. If you had a 5 spd with your mods I would say definately you could take a stock ls1. I have never driven an auto gt but I know they are slower, I hear torque converters help out a lot. I would recomend the magnaflow catback to finish off your exhaust but do not expect to gain 10 hp at the wheels, more like 5hp. I raced an ls1 z28 from about 15 mph until about 65 mph, he pulled me half a car length, he had a 6 spd and said he had stuff done but didnt specify, I only had the triax, densecharger, and catback plus the heavy 18's.

I bought the car last summer for looks (mineral grey convertible) and convenience (automatic). But now I have the performance bug. I guess the only way to overcome the "heavy vert slowmatic" is a supercharger. I really want to be able to run with the big dogs.

jc315 · Aug 9, 2004

I have less mods than you and I just beat a 98 TA so I think you shouldnt' have any problem I have an auto also maybe its is just the driver though b/c my buddy is putting down a 13.71 at the track and i'm hitting 13.69 so its always really close his only mods are aftermarket ram air also though.

Probablecause · Aug 9, 2004

here's a video for you. i found it one day looking around the net...it's an automatic ls1 camaro against a supercharged saleen s281. now just by wathing there's no way to tell about mods...the camaro gets a jump and does have an auto....the race turns out surprisingly. IMO the saleen is running atleast an intake set up, given the luder than stock whine on the roots blower.

http://www.angelfire.com/ult/insaynez/videos/camaro_saleen.wmv

Probablecause · Aug 9, 2004

here's a video for you. i found it one day looking around the net...it's an automatic ls1 camaro against a supercharged saleen s281. now just by wathing there's no way to tell about mods...the camaro gets a jump and does have an auto....the race turns out surprisingly. IMO the saleen is running atleast an intake set up, given the louder than stock whine on the roots blower.

http://www.angelfire.com/ult/insaynez/videos/camaro_saleen.wmv

TrueBlueCajun · Aug 9, 2004

Even if you match or come close to his hp, his gearing will kill you once he hits 3rd gear. Those LS1s are killers once they get into 3rd gear. You'll have him in first and second, but once he hits third, unless you have a few car lengths on him with not much distance to the finish line/next traffic signal, it's over and you will be on the losing end. I've never sat in a car that pulled so hard in third/fourth gear as those LS1s (well, the '03-'04 Cobras do).

IJUSTWON · Aug 9, 2004

What hp differences are there for a 99, 00, or 01 model LS1?

Can I beat a Firebird (LS1)?

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