Can I keep the cam?

[68conv4sp]

I just changed to a 5 speed and 3.55 diff. The money is almost gone. The car does great off the line, but the stock/soundly rebuilt 289 wheezes over 4000 rpms. It has an Edel Performer intake, 500 cfm 4 barrel, and tri-ys. Here is what I'm considering:

AFR 165 heads w/ 1.7 rockers. Leave the cam alone to keep labor/parts down. Will this give enough lift to allow good breathing up to 5000 rpm? Will I loose the torque down low?

Money wasted or good creative thought?

 

[D.Hearne]

Yea, you can keep the cam. How well the heads do with it, depends on what the grind is. Just don't expect much with the intake/carb bottleneck. That needs to go as soon as you decide to swap the cam.

 

[rbohm]

with the heads alone you are looking at about 40hp more than stock. keep the cam you have now, and upgrade when you have the money. i would however upgrade the intake and exhaust first, then go for a different cam. be sure to match the components for best performance and efficiency.

 

[Fast63]

I agree with previous statements. You could put the AFR 165's and 1.7 rockers on and leave the rest, but the potential of the heads will be limited quite a bit. If you get some more money later, upgrade to a Stealth or performer RPM intake with a 600-650cfm 4barrel carb and an aftermarket cam of your choice. I do not think you will lose low end power with the heads, and you will probably get better pull to 5000, but don't expect dramatic gains.

 

[woodsnake]

How much money have you got left? How much faster do you want to go? I'm just looking at 'the stock rebuilt' 289. When was it rebuilt? How old is the timing gear set up? To change the cam isn't that much more work than changing the heads! There are several comp cam "K" kits that run around 425 ish. New springs timing gear, cam and lifters, etc...

I think that a 600-650 Holley on top of the intake you have, would be a better carb choice. How large of exhaust pipe are you running? 2"? 2 1/2"?

If you are going to buy aluminum heads, get the best ones you can. Don't limit yourself now, for a potential upgrade later. I mean, why settle for the 165's? I'd suggest at least a 2.02 valve size, more if you are planning on a bigger carb/cam combo later.
And don't discount used 'hard' parts while you do your budget. You can get a lot of deals on craiglist.org!

 

[D.Hearne]

Nothing at all wrong with 165's on a 289. I've got Canfield 1.94 valved heads on my 331 and have never regretted it. It pulls to 7000 rpms with a Z303 cam.Same heads on a 302 short block with a B303 cam and 1.7's pulled to 7500. Bigger heads on a 289 short block are a waste. The rpm potential will exceed the bottom end's ability to handle it.

 

[Blu-Steel]

Nothing at all wrong with 165's on a 289.

I agree; the heads you are looking at would work nicely on a 289 and you can easily upgrade your intake, carb and cam later when you have the extra money. In the mean time the heads will give you some more performance.

 

[68conv4sp]

$2000 left, including labor (I don't trust my limited skills to set up heads/push rods, etc). So, it looks like good heads (AFR, TW, Canfields) are at least $1500 for the pair. With shipping, tax, incidentals, I figure $1650, leaving $350 for labor - not much!

What I hope to gain is an increase in 4-5K breathing without sacrificing bottom end torque. Thus the 165cc. I'll mortgage my soul later to get the intake, cam, and labor $.

 

[woodsnake]

I just want to clarify my point, that IF you are going to beef up the rest of the engine, plan for that eventuality. I'm not saying the 165's aren't any good.

I believe that Edelbrock has an H/C/I package available in that same price range.



http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL-2092&autoview=sku

 

[65kcode]

Check your Carb setup first!!!

I just changed to a 5 speed and 3.55 diff. The money is almost gone. The car does great off the line, but the stock/soundly rebuilt 289 wheezes over 4000 rpms. It has an Edel Performer intake, 500 cfm 4 barrel, and tri-ys. Here is what I'm considering:

AFR 165 heads w/ 1.7 rockers. Leave the cam alone to keep labor/parts down. Will this give enough lift to allow good breathing up to 5000 rpm? Will I loose the torque down low?

Money wasted or good creative thought?

My Dad's HiPo 289 was falling on it's face at about 4500 rpm, we were ready to pull the motor and swap the cam to a known HiPo cam. We mentioned to a friend that owns a service shop about doing the cam swap for us. He told us to bring it down, he rebuilt the carb and changed the jetting. It was 3 jets to small on the mains. Now it pulls HARD to 7000RPM. Totally different car!!

Check that before spending a bunch of money you may not need to.

Kevin

 

[Cobain03]

im going with the 165's. but i just googled them and say they have a 165 competition version as well. gonna do a lil more research

 

[Rusty67]

I just changed to a 5 speed and 3.55 diff. The money is almost gone. The car does great off the line, but the stock/soundly rebuilt 289 wheezes over 4000 rpms. It has an Edel Performer intake, 500 cfm 4 barrel, and tri-ys. Here is what I'm considering:

AFR 165 heads w/ 1.7 rockers. Leave the cam alone to keep labor/parts down. Will this give enough lift to allow good breathing up to 5000 rpm? Will I loose the torque down low?

Money wasted or good creative thought?

Wait, I'm confused. You have a 289 in a 68 ? I thought there were no 289s in the 68s ?

Get yourself an RPM Air gap and a 670 street avenger then slap a cam in and a madril bent 2 1/2" exahust. My stock 5.0 works just fine at higher RPMs, it doesn't even have an aftermarket cam in it.

You can always save up for heads later and when you add them, they will work with all the previous upgrades and you should see a big jump in performance.

 

[woodsnake]

"Wait, I'm confused. You have a 289 in a 68 ? I thought there were no 289s in the 68s ?"

The standard engine might have been the 302, but the assembly lines used up the 289 inventory.
I thought the same thing about my 68 Cougar, it is a "C" code 289 also.
Well, now it's a .030 over rpm performer dual quad four speed car!
(see the link in the sig) ^^^^ up a couple of posts. I don't know why they drop out...

 

[68conv4sp]

I understand that quite a few early '68s had the C code 289. Wish I had a "W" code, if that really existed in my year and model. Barring that, a 331 is somewhere in my future.

 

[69gmachine]

If he's has the stock 289 cam I don't know why all you guys are recommending he keep it. It's a lot cheaper to replace the cam than the heads, and you can really wake the engine up with a very streetable but hotter cam. Just my .02 but I think the stock 289 cam is a dog. An old lame dog. With no tail.

 

[68conv4sp]

OK I'll bite. If I use the $ to replace the cam, do I need to do anything to the rockers? I'm wondering about the pressed in studs vulnerability. And, will the stock stamped rockers handle, say, .50 of lift?

 

[D.Hearne]

Well he hasn't said what cam is in there now. Even with the stock cam, he'll see an improvement. As far as swapping the cam and not the heads, he'll be limited in cam choices to those that are compatible with the stock pressed in studs, that means no larger than a mild "RV" style cam. (something like a 204/214 @.050 duration, no bigger than .510 lift). You don't have stamped rockers, you've got the rail rockers in a 68. These are also limited in cam grind to about the same thing listed above. If you do the heads now, you can go bigger on the cam grind later, also provided you don't choose something that needs more than a 9 to 1 comp ratio. So if you just do the cam now, you may want a bigger cam later along with the heads, if you end up doing those later too.

 

[68conv4sp]

My guess is that its a stock cam. I say this because the motor is very smooth and starves out above 4000rpm. I bought the car after the motor had about 7,000 on a rebuild. The shop in Portland that did it is no longer in business and I have run into dead ends trying to find out what components were used in the rebuild.

So, to summarize what I'm hearing, installing more than a mild "RV grind" cam really means replacing the rockers, studs, etc. That would leave me with the smog bump and restrictive stock heads (63cc 8.7:1). This is all fun to consider, but I want to do it right. That seems to mean waiting until I can afford the heads, cam, intake, labor combo. So, more like $3000, I think.

 

[68conv4sp]

$3000 is pretty close to a basic crate engine, right? Great. Now I've talked myself into a complete motor swap. Good think I love the car.

 

[D.Hearne]

Nothing wrong with doing it "one piece at a time". You'll learn more this way too. Go for the heads first. Worry about the rest later. You won't be sorry. The cam swap later can also be done at the time of the intake/carb swap. You won't have to disturb the heads.