Engine Can't get the motor to fire.

[evintho]

If it's not one thing, it's another! Now I can't get the motor to start.
'93 5.0 from a Mustang. Basically, a fresh rebuild. I've got fuel (shoots out when I depress the schrader valve) and spark (good spark outta the plug wires). At TDC the timing mark is where it's supposed to be and the rotor is pointed at #1 on the cap. Turns over fine. When I turn the distributor all the way to the left (pass side) it backfires through the headers while turning over and when turned more to the right (drivers side) it doesn't backfire. That's about as far as my expertise will take me! What am I missing?

 

[limp]

is the cam 180 out?

 

[CAMTWO1070]

Try seeing if your TFI plug is pushed all the way onto the TFI module....

 

[evintho]

Marks were lined up on the cam and crank gears when I replaced the timing chain.

 

[evintho]

Try seeing if your TFI plug is pushed all the way onto the TFI module....

Double checked.....it is.

 

[CAMTWO1070]

If it's not one thing, it's another! Now I can't get the motor to start.
'93 5.0 from a Mustang. Basically, a fresh rebuild. I've got fuel (shoots out when I depress the schrader valve) and spark (good spark outta the plug wires). At TDC the timing mark is where it's supposed to be and the rotor is pointed at #1 on the cap. Turns over fine. When I turn the distributor all the way to the left (pass side) it backfires through the headers while turning over and when turned more to the right (drivers side) it doesn't backfire. That's about as far as my expertise will take me! What am I missing?

When I plumb my engines for a performance engine I have a liquid filled mechanical gauge under the hood aswell as a digital gauge on the dash to always monitor my fuel pressure...One time my fuel pressure was just 3lbs under spec and y vehicle wouldnt fiire up...It would just fire n quit...

The way you set the timing is you put he pointer at the balancer at 10* btdc then set the rotor where the #1 wire is.......If you set it to 0 you'll have to advance the distributor 10+ to get it set right......

The way I get my timing set right is with a whistle keychain with a piece of 3/8" fueline attached and put in #1 cylinder...The whistle blows on the right stroke and stops whistling at TDC...

Good Luck

 

[evintho]

When I plumb my engines for a performance engine I have a liquid filled mechanical gauge under the hood aswell as a digital gauge on the dash to always monitor my fuel pressure...One time my fuel pressure was just 3lbs under spec and y vehicle wouldnt fiire up...It would just fire n quit...

The way you set the timing is you put he pointer at the balancer at 10* btdc then set the rotor where the #1 wire is.......If you set it to 0 you'll have to advance the distributor 10+ to get it set right......

The way I get my timing set right is with a whistle keychain with a piece of 3/8" fueline attached and put in #1 cylinder...The whistle blows on the right stroke and stops whistling at TDC...

Mine doesn't fire and quit, it doesn't fire at all.
There's no timing graduations on my stock balancer. Just a groove across the balancer that I painted white. When the piston is at TDC that white groove line is right at the edge of the silver timing pointer. There is fuel and spark so I'm thinking it's some kind of timing issue.

 

[General karthief]

I believe your timing mark on the balancer is not at TDC, a stock balancer has hash marks at 0* and small marks for every 2* and a long mark at 10* the small 2* marks till 20* and so on.
Check the balancer on the opposite side of that white mark your seeing.

 

[evintho]

I believe your timing mark on the balancer is not at TDC, a stock balancer has hash marks at 0* and small marks for every 2* and a long mark at 10* the small 2* marks till 20* and so on.
Check the balancer on the opposite side of that white mark your seeing.

This is the mark on the opposite side of the balancer. Maybe I used the wrong mark? There're no hash marks anywhere on the balancer.

 

[OldManRiver]

The belt wrap on your crank pully is abysmal.

 

[General karthief]

Where did you get that balancer?
Scrape the paint off around the mark in the first pic or get a Mr. Gasket (are they still around?) timing tape, make sure you are at the top of the compression stroke on the #1 cylinder, you can't set the timing without a timing light and those marks.
Do the distributor thing (pointing at #1 plug tower)
it should start at 0* and run, Does the firing order match the cam type?
Once you have the timing and the firing order set, give the throttle body a shot of starting fluid and it should run for a couple seconds.
Some notes: fuel spray'n out the schrader valve when you push the plunger does not mean you have good fuel pressure, you can't 'eyeball' fuel pressure , EFI engine systems operate within a set of perimeters, out side these perimeters and they are not happy, that includes fuel pressure,
And about that belt wrap at the crank pulley, yeah, that amount would be the minimum belt contact but it should work with just water pump and alternator, BTW, is that a 'standard rotation' water pump? The water pumps in our cars are 'reverse rotation'.

 

[Gs1987GT]

Mine doesn't fire and quit, it doesn't fire at all.
There's no timing graduations on my stock balancer. Just a groove across the balancer that I painted white. When the piston is at TDC that white groove line is right at the edge of the silver timing pointer. There is fuel and spark so I'm thinking it's some kind of timing issue.

There are timing graduations on the stock balencer, as general stated, wire brush the paint off and you should be able to see them. Without them you will have no idea where your at with timing.

 

[evintho]

Where did you get that balancer?
Scrape the paint off around the mark in the first pic or get a Mr. Gasket (are they still around?) timing tape, make sure you are at the top of the compression stroke on the #1 cylinder, you can't set the timing without a timing light and those marks.
Do the distributor thing (pointing at #1 plug tower)
it should start at 0* and run, Does the firing order match the cam type?
Once you have the timing and the firing order set, give the throttle body a shot of starting fluid and it should run for a couple seconds.
Some notes: fuel spray'n out the schrader valve when you push the plunger does not mean you have good fuel pressure, you can't 'eyeball' fuel pressure , EFI engine systems operate within a set of perimeters, out side these perimeters and they are not happy, that includes fuel pressure,
And about that belt wrap at the crank pulley, yeah, that amount would be the minimum belt contact but it should work with just water pump and alternator, BTW, is that a 'standard rotation' water pump? The water pumps in our cars are 'reverse rotation'.

Good info!
As far as I can tell it's the factory balancer. I've had the balancer off, cleaned and sanded and there were no graduation marks on it at all. Kinda surprised me! Here's a pic as I pulled the motor out of the Mustang..........

Firing order has been triple checked for a 1993 Mustang 5.0 H.O. 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.
Cam is the factory roller. I'll pick up a timing tape today and order a fuel pressure gauge from Amazon......that'll take a week to get here.
I put a standard rotation water pump on it and dumped the reverse rotation pump.
The belt wrap will be fine. On the alt it actually mimics the stock belt wrap. The crank pulley is only spinning the water pump and alt..........

 

[General karthief]

The timing marks are hard to see, small hash marks.

 

[evintho]

I may see something on there! I'll have to go sand down the balancer. I'll report back.

 

[evintho]

Ok, sanded down the balancer and found the timing marks.....duh! Set it to 0* at the compression stroke. Pulled 4 plugs, put my thumb over the #1 hole and spun it by hand until my thumb blew off.
I also pirated the fuel pressure gauge off the roadster and installed it. With the key ON and pump primed, I'm getting 32psi.
Pulled the MAF hose off the TB, opened the butterfly and squirted in some starting fluid.
NO JOY!
After a couple of seconds of turning over I got one loud pop.
Tried it multiple times and all it did was crank. No more pops.

Pulled the SPOUT and nothing.
Layed the coil wire next to the coil and great spark. Fuel pressure seems decent. I'm at a loss and not sure what to do next!

 

[Potomus Pete]

More starting fluid

 

[General karthief]

No more starting fluid than just a quick little toot.
if you got a 'pop' like a back fire the timing is off, here's how I do it : since you know about the finger over the plug hole trick, next take a very small screw driver, stick it in the spark plug hole (#1) and feel the piston move up as you turn the engine by hand with a long breaker bar on the crank shaft bolt, you want the exact moment the piston stops rising and before it starts to fall so you may have to turn the crank one way then the other to get the sweet spot. The balancer should read 0*, does the rotor point to the #1 plug wire on the cap? I mark the outside of the distributor below the #1 plug wire tower with a marker. This should get it to crank up.

 

[evintho]

Alright, for those who don't know...............THE GENERAL IS A ROCK STAR!!!
Went out to the garage, set the balancer to 0*, popped the cap and sure enough.....the rotor was pointing to the #6 plug wire tower!
Pulled the distributor, reset it so the rotor points to #1, turned the key and it fired right up! Runs smooth too with good oil pressure!
Thanks to all who threw out ideas and especially, thanks to the General for walking me through the basics. Sometimes I overthink things and miss the simple stuff! Thank you, sir!

 

[General karthief]

I can tell you all about setting the timing because I have screwed it up sooooo many times.
i always go back to the basics, I'm not that great a mechanic, everything I 've learned was because I did it wrong so many times.
Oh, and the members here have helped me look like a genius more than once with what I've learned from them here.
Now if they would only tell me where Noobs hid the cookies