Car Won't Start!

[caine0]

I have a 1990 lx, all stock. I parked it for 5 months for winter. It started first try everytime every 2 weeks all winter long. When I took it out on the road the first day this spring, the battery died when I turned off my car. I boosted it, and it worked fine. Then the second day I drove it the battery died again and I couldn't start it, even boosting wouldn't work.

So today I replaced my alternator, and charged my battery up. I had my battery tested and they said it was fine, just needed to be charged. So I just tried to start it, and it wouldn't start. I even tried boosting it, wouldn't start.

Now this is what is happening is when I reconnect the battery after charging it:
Put the key in the ignition and turn it half way so that the dash lights come on, which works fine. Then when I turn the key to start it it just clicks, the engine doesn't try and turn over or anything, no engine sounds whatsoever. I hear my fuel pump working when I turn the key, so I don't think it's that. I also hear a click, so it couldn't be my starter right? What's weird is that the dash lights will only come on until I try to start the first time, then when I pull the keys back it's like the car completely shuts off, won't let me try to start again unless I disconnect the battery then reconnect it.

So I guess it's something electrical? Any suggestions? And where is the link to that website that tells you how to pull error codes? I can't find it in the forums. Thanks.

 

[1991stanggt]

So I guess it's something electrical? Any suggestions? And where is the link to that website that tells you how to pull error codes? I can't find it in the forums. Thanks.[/QUOTE]


You need to buy a code scanner first, they sell it at Autozone for about 30 bucks. I'd get one if I were you its very helpful

 

[NKau]

Sounds like you have a new problem. The symptoms you describe are the exact same that I had when my battery ground cable went bad. You could actually wiggle the + and - cables and it would eventually start; but after a week it wouldn't and I just replaced both the + and - cables. Sounds like the exact same thing you are experiencing since you can pull the battery cables, put them on and at least get power to your dash again.

 

[HISSIN50]

i like Nick's thinking. make sure to check positive cable and motor grounds too.
good luck.

 

[jrichker]

Here's a checklist:

Check battery, terminal connections, ground, starter relay switch (also known as solenoid) and starter in that order.

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection: more than .5 volts across a connection indicates a problem.

1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall.

3.) Then pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw) and jump it to the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it starts, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

4.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then the relay is bad.

5.) Jump the big terminals on the starter relay next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

6.) The starter may be hung, loosen up the bolts that hold it on, and give it a good whack with a big hammer. Tighten up the bolts and try again.

7.) If that doesn't work, use a jumper cable from the positive lead on the battery direct to the starter post where the big wire from the relay connects. If it cranks then, it is the power wire from the relay gone bad. This will be hard to do, since there isn't much room to do it.

8.) Pull the starter and take it to Autozone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.

 

[caine0]

Thanks guys. I bought a code scanner tonight, so hopefully it will help me out. I'm hoping it's something as simple as bad + - wires, because they do look rusty. *cough* ghetto stang *cough*

If I get some error codes then I'll come back and post them.

 

[caine0]

Okay so I pulled the codes (hopefully I did this right). The "hard code" I pulled, which is repeated twice at the beginning of the test, came back as 22 if I read it correctly. The book says this is "Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) or BARO sensor out of range".

I of course can still not get my car to start, so this was a key on engine off test. Does this mean my MAP sensor is screwed and that's my problem? Or does this code come back just because my car wasn't started?

 

[HISSIN50]

you need to follow the list that Jrichker gave you. Nick and i think it is cables, ill battery, etc. and those are on his list. there are not many things that can leave you with a car that wont turn over.
check connections at the battery (and the other end of the cable). connect a battery to it (as if jump starting) and see how it does. cables can corrode from the inside out, so they look ok, but are junk inside. something to consider given where you live.

it should be something simple around the battery. i would not worry about the code. i never pull codes on a car that does not even turn over, since the problem is usually something academic. a bad MAP sensor will not keep the car from TURNING over.
good luck.

 

[caine0]

Thanks Hissin50. I just pulled the codes again, because I knew I probably didn't write them down correctly the first time. This is what I got:
First Group:
21
24
21
24

Pause
Second Group:
15
15

21 is "Cooling temperature sensor out of specified range or ECT out of range"
24 is "Intake Air Charge Temperature (ACT, IAT) sensor or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range"
15 is "EEC (PCM) Read Only Memory (ROM) test failed"
OR
15 is "Power interruption to computer memory or EEC (PCM) Keep Alive Memory (KAM) test failed"

I'm going to head to the store right now and get a new ground wire, and some new battery cables. If any of those codes might be what's not allowing my car to turn over at all, then lemme know plz.

 

[caine0]

Bought some new ends for my wires, and a new battery ground. Hooked them up, reattached the battery, and my girl started up first try! Thanks to everybody who helped.

 

[NKau]

It's always the simple things Glad to hear you got it sorted out. Looks like you need a couple new sensors as well. I'd also make a separate post dealing with those computer error codes and make sure there's nothing there that will give you any trouble.

 

[jrichker]

Code 21 – ECT sensor out of range. Broken or damaged wiring, bad ECT sensor. Note that that if the outside air temp is below 50 degrees F that the test for the ECT or ACT can be in error.

ACT & ECT test data:

Pin 25 ACT signal in. at 50 degrees F it should be 3.5 volts. It is a good number if the ACT is mounted in the inlet airbox. If it is mounted in the lower intake manifold, the voltage readings will be lower because of the heat transfer. Here's the table :

68 degrees F = 3.02 v
86 degrees F = 2.62 v
104 degrees F = 2.16 v
122 degrees F = 1.72 v
140 degrees F = 1.35 v
158 degrees F = 1.04 v
176 degrees F = .80 v
194 degrees F = .61

Ohms measures at the computer with the computer disconnected, or at the sensor with the sensor disconnected.
50 degrees F = 58.75 K ohms
68 degrees F = 37.30 K ohms
86 degrees F = 27.27 K ohms
104 degrees F = 16.15 K ohms
122 degrees F = 10.97 K ohms
140 degrees F = 7.60 K ohms
158 degrees F = 5.37 K ohms
176 degrees F = 3.84 K ohms
194 degrees F = 2.80 K ohms

The ACT & ECT have the same thermistor, so the table values are the same
Pin 7 ECT signal in. at 176 degrees F it should be .80 volts

Code 24 - Intake Air Temperature (ACT) sensor out of range. Bad sensor, bad wiring. The ACT for Mustangs built before 95 is in the #5 intake runner. It measures the air temperature in the intake to help computer the proper air/fuel ratio.

Code 15 no keep alive voltage to computer. Look for a missing voltage on computer pin 1 (Black/Orange wire) with the ignition switch off. Try clearing the codes, if code 15 doesn't clear, the computer has a internal ROM failure. In other words, the computer is defective.