Carburetors, what do you look for when purchasing one?

Ares67Coupe · Nov 3, 2004

Well guys and gals, as some of you know or may not know, and for those I have helped with some of their carb issues. I rebuild carbs on a daily basis, the company I am working for is doing something I think is really really awesome! We are designing a BRAND NEW carb, based on what the people want, we are going all out on it, it will be CNC machined and I am hoping to offer the first run to you on StangNet and Corral at a discounted price.

What I wondering is what do you guys and gals look for in a carb when you go to buy one, what do you want from the carb if you could have all you wanted from it? No help from me, and please make the answer original! Thanks a bunch guys!

Some ideas:

A) Appearance: IE Polished, Chrome, Painted, Powdercoated, Anodized?
B) Size
C) Gas Mileage
D) Drivability
E) Performance
F) 2BBL, 4BBL, 6BBL, etc?
G) Off Road Use for those of you who off road?
H) Racing applications?
I) Trumpet?
J) Filters?
K) Choke type, electric, climatic, hand choke, or no choke at all?

Since we are starting with a blank sheet here, it would look really great to my boss if I presented him with some really good ideas, and it would work out better for you because it would be your input that helped design the carb.

For The Mods: If this post is out of line, please IM me and let me know.

Thank you again!

-Chris

iamlance · Nov 3, 2004

I'm doing my first carburated Ford build soon (302). In the past I've had G.M. products. I've always liked Quadrajets for there simplicity and reliability. The spreadbore pattern worked well. You could get acceptable gas milage while cruising on the primarys and plenty of punch with those big secondarys. The only drawback is to do most mods , carb top has to be removed. Something with those features is what I would look for.
Anyone ever run a Qjet???

thehueypilot · Nov 3, 2004

I would like to see a sight glass built into the float bowls that you can actually see. I change the jets a lot and have actually stripped out the bowl screws because they are not deep enough and the thread engagement is a class "3" fit instead of a class "2" fit. I like an anodized finish with a choice of normal colors. Keep it simple!

bnickel · Nov 3, 2004

i would like to see a completely new design that is not based off a holley 4150/4160 carb. maybe something like an autolite 4100 style carb. make it with holley style jets that can be changed without removing the top or bowls. it should have excellent atomization characteristics and be extremely tunable. i would like to see electric choke, streamlined air entries, interchangeable squirters, accelerator pumps, boosters, etc. that use all standard style holley replacement parts. basically i would like to see a barry grant version of the holley 4010/4011, which is really just holley's version of the autolite 4100. this style of carb is simple and effective and can be tuned for both performance and economy, holley had a great idea when they built the 4010/4011 carbs but they failed in the execution. if you could combine all the best features of that carb, and barry grant road demon and the autolite 4100 i think you would have one hell of a bad-ass carb

Ares67Coupe · Nov 3, 2004

Some great ideas! Keep them coming! More the better, because it'll benefit us all in the end. These designs will be CAD/CAM designed and CNC machined, so they'll look good, polish easy, AND have the most streamlined air horns. None of this squarish crap that some companies are doing.

ratio411 · Nov 4, 2004

No metering rods or odd parts.

Keep it simple with screw in jets, screw in squirters, adjustable pumps.
Either use Holley style vacuum secondarys, or double pump design. No odd secondary design like Federal Mogul (Edelbrock/AFB) or Rochester (Quadrabog).

I am really sold on the Holley design, but it sounds like you want to make a better mousetrap...
So, I do like the simplicity of tuning the Holley as I mentioned above, but some carbs have an advantage in:
Accel pumps that cannot leak below the carb.
Bowls that have no available leak point below.
Personally, I think that vacuum secondary carbs can be quite large and not hurt performance, so 750 is fine there. The primarys are smaller than stock 2 barrels and the secondarys only work when the engine needs it.
On mechanical designs, the sizes should be more diverse... say 500 to 800 cfm in 100 cfm increments.
Dave

bnickel · Nov 4, 2004

ratio411 said:
No metering rods or odd parts.

Keep it simple with screw in jets, screw in squirters, adjustable pumps.
Either use Holley style vacuum secondarys, or double pump design. No odd secondary design like Federal Mogul (Edelbrock/AFB) or Rochester (Quadrabog).

I am really sold on the Holley design, but it sounds like you want to make a better mousetrap...
So, I do like the simplicity of tuning the Holley as I mentioned above, but some carbs have an advantage in:
Accel pumps that cannot leak below the carb.
Bowls that have no available leak point below.
Personally, I think that vacuum secondary carbs can be quite large and not hurt performance, so 750 is fine there. The primarys are smaller than stock 2 barrels and the secondarys only work when the engine needs it.
On mechanical designs, the sizes should be more diverse... say 500 to 800 cfm in 100 cfm increments.
Dave

hey Dave, what did you think of my idea of modifying the autolite 4100 holley 4010/4011 idea? of alll the people on this board as far as carbs are concerned i value you opinion as one of the best

Ares67Coupe · Nov 4, 2004

Keep em coming!

6stang8 · Nov 5, 2004

Well, I've only really fooled around with my Holley 1850-3 so that's all I have experience with.

It would be nice if the carb included a few jets sizes, or was compatible with Holley jets. How about variable jets that you could adjust like idle mixture screws? Is that even possible, or is it asking for trouble?

Also, Holley relies on different accelerator pump cams and different size nozzles. Could there be an infinetly adjustable cam that would work?(still allow people to use holley cams though) How about a screw that could control the flow through the accelerator pump nozzles? Is that possible?

It's not that hard to change nozzles though, but maybe extra nozzles should be included or make the nozzles compatible with Holley nozzles.

How about a way to adjust the spring rate of an the secondaries to further enhance tuning without changing springs.(although springs could still be changed). Would that work?

It would be nice if it was easier to adjust the secondaries too. I adjusted mine recently and had to take the carburetor off the intake to do so as I couldn't get a screwdriver in the hole with it on the intake.

Anything that can reduce the risk of fuel leaking would definetly be a plus. I also would prefer an anodized carb myself.(although my Holley is running well so I don't need a carb right now.)

Anyway, I'd like a carb that was more adjustable without having to buy extra parts to make it perform well. Compatibility with existing Holley stuff would be a plus too.

My carb also has percolated the fuel too from time to time. Any way to eliminate that in carb design without lowering the float level or adding a spacer?

As you can tell, I don't know enough about carburetors; but since you asked, off the wall ideas you get!

ratio411 · Nov 5, 2004

I thought Holley had a good idea with the 4011 style carbs. I guess they didn't sell well though. I remember when they were discontinued and still sat on the shelf, you could pick one up DIRT CHEAP. They just never caught on. At least not enough for a big company like Holley to keep them around.

I like the idea of making cams, jets, squirters, etc... infinately adjustable, BUT I don't think it is realistic from a simple design or price concious point of view.
Having the carb base and bowls together like the carbs mentioned is a good idea from a leak prevention standpoint, but if a mounting ear gets broken off the carb, it is basically ruined. It's bad enough getting a new throttle plate for a Holley, and it is totally separate from the body.
Soooo, if this was the design idea, I would make the mounting points stout. There is only so much you can do though, anyone with enough elbow behind a wrench can snap a baseplate. I learned the hard way myself once. Don't overtighten your carb!
Good luck
Dave

bnickel · Nov 5, 2004

ratio411 said:
I thought Holley had a good idea with the 4011 style carbs. I guess they didn't sell well though. I remember when they were discontinued and still sat on the shelf, you could pick one up DIRT CHEAP. They just never caught on. At least not enough for a big company like Holley to keep them around.

I like the idea of making cams, jets, squirters, etc... infinately adjustable, BUT I don't think it is realistic from a simple design or price concious point of view.
Having the carb base and bowls together like the carbs mentioned is a good idea from a leak prevention standpoint, but if a mounting ear gets broken off the carb, it is basically ruined. It's bad enough getting a new throttle plate for a Holley, and it is totally separate from the body.
Soooo, if this was the design idea, I would make the mounting points stout. There is only so much you can do though, anyone with enough elbow behind a wrench can snap a baseplate. I learned the hard way myself once. Don't overtighten your carb!
Good luck
Dave

i think a one piece body can still be don with a seperate base plate maybe e billet plate like a demon

Ares67Coupe · Nov 6, 2004

Keep em coming!

6stang8 · Nov 7, 2004

How about a couple more? Any chance on an adjustable power valve or equivalent? Although it is easier just to divide your vacuum by 2 and install a fixed power valve.

How about a screw or screws to let more air in instead of having to drill holes in the primary plates to keep from exposing too much of the transfer slot when using a radical cam in the engine?

I can't think of anything else.

Ares67Coupe · Nov 7, 2004

6stang8 said:
How about a couple more? Any chance on an adjustable power valve or equivalent? Although it is easier just to divide your vacuum by 2 and install a fixed power valve.

How about a screw or screws to let more air in instead of having to drill holes in the primary plates to keep from exposing too much of the transfer slot when using a radical cam in the engine?

I can't think of anything else.

I am not sure how well it would work or not, I'll have to talk to my boss, I am pretty sure it is possible though. I'll keep that you posted on that.

1320stang · Nov 8, 2004

I'll throw out some out of the box thinking:

1. Carb Height - many complain about the manifold they want to use being too tall, necessitating a cowl hood or scoop. Any way to make the carb flatter or hang the bowls off the ends to where they're lower?

2. Side draft - This may solve the problems in #1 suggestion, yet create more problems, yet I see some room for creativity here, give the stacks the ability to be plumbed to a cool fresh air source.

3. Power Adder Friendly - this adds onto suggestion #2, could you pipe up some tubes from a blower or turbo for a pressurized system? I'm not a NO2 guy, but having a modular base plate that has plugged spots for nitrous might be cool.

4. Ease of tuning at the track - I agree about being able to make changes quickly and safely without worrying about a fire due to spilt fuel.

5. In the case of a race carb, alcohol or methanol friendly - needs multi fuel capable gasketing if gaskets are a necessity.

6. Electronic friendly? - is there something that you could do with some sort of sensors or flow meteres that would be of use with a MSD product or something similar?

Anodizing isn't very fuel friendly as far as keeping it looking nice, maybe hard anodizing would work.

Hack · Nov 8, 2004

iamlance said:
I'm doing my first carburated Ford build soon (302). In the past I've had G.M. products. I've always liked Quadrajets for there simplicity and reliability. The spreadbore pattern worked well. You could get acceptable gas milage while cruising on the primarys and plenty of punch with those big secondarys. The only drawback is to do most mods , carb top has to be removed. Something with those features is what I would look for.
Anyone ever run a Qjet???

I had a '76 Olds Cutlass with a 350 that my dad convinced me to buy as my first car (I wanted a Mustang back then too). That had a quadrajunk on it.

Hated it.

Ares67Coupe · Nov 10, 2004

More please!

D.Hearne · Nov 10, 2004

I don't know why y'all are so dis-satisfied with Holley's. I LOVE the three currently residing on top of the motor in my 89 Ranger. Been driving them daily since I got them set up two months ago. Haven't touched em. Sound awesome. runs awesome too.

Max Power · Nov 10, 2004

I like Holleys, but it would be cool if you could change jets without draining the bowl, and it would be cool if all the feul was below a gasketed surface.

luckyae · Nov 10, 2004

Cheap

Make a "design for manufacturability" product to keep costs low. Of course don't go with poor quality. Also make a carb with good directions for setting it, not ambiguous wording and such.

Carburetors, what do you look for when purchasing one?

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