checking the vaccum

krash kendall · May 24, 2006

I thought about this last night and my main concern would be the timing due to the fact that you have set the distributor from the position where it previously ran at to a new position (possibly). Now this morning I see you have smoke coming out the breather. If the car is way out of time and is flooding (due to bad time) then any ignition will be ineffective as the cylinder walls will have been washed clean of oil providing little compression. Any combustion you have will blow past the rings and valve guides (if WAY out of time) causing the smoke from the sump through the breather.

Start over. Set the needle valves to 1-1/2 turns out, reset the timing at TDC making sure you indeed at TDC and not 180 out. You can even turn the engine over with the coil wire off and the fuel line off (stuffed in a jerry can) to get some oil back up to the rings. Then try to start it.

mudbilly · May 24, 2006

krash kendall said:
I thought about this last night and my main concern would be the timing due to the fact that you have set the distributor from the position where it previously ran at to a new position (possibly). Now this morning I see you have smoke coming out the breather. If the car is way out of time and is flooding (due to bad time) then any ignition will be ineffective as the cylinder walls will have been washed clean of oil providing little compression. Any combustion you have will blow past the rings and valve guides (if WAY out of time) causing the smoke from the sump through the breather.

Start over. Set the needle valves to 1-1/2 turns out, reset the timing at TDC making sure you indeed at TDC and not 180 out. You can even turn the engine over with the coil wire off and the fuel line off (stuffed in a jerry can) to get some oil back up to the rings. Then try to start it.

i tend to agree.....(although i never heard of lack of compression if the cylinders are without oil ) .......gas, spark, and timing is all it takes to start.........it may run rough, but it'll start if you have these 3

does the car even "sputter" ???????? like it is trying to start???

does it backfire ????

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

I just made a major observation out there. I thought to myself "I have tried everything else and since I cleaned the carb because it was just sitting with standing gas why not change the oil and filter so I did and it got so much closer to starting this time. Then I looked at my dash and my alternator light is on but not the oil light. I hadn't even thought about the alternator before, so I looked at it and it is jerry rigged to the max. None of the original wiring is left, it looks like whoever re-wired it just went to the hardware store and just bought some wire and put it on. I could take a picture of it if you like. But I think that this is modt likely the cause of it not starting. I had a little trouble with the alternator before but unfortunaltely I didn't take it to my normal mechanic and the person I took it to just said that he put a new wire on it, i didn't think about it at the time but I know now I probably should have looked at his work before I left. Well what do you think about that? The only problem is I don't know whether its wired correctly now or not.

Capt Dan · May 24, 2006

When you set your timing....did you set it to TDC or about 10Deg. Before?

It will have a hard time starting exactly @ TDC

and yes, a pic of the alt. wiring may help.

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

I retarded it about that much yes

mudbilly · May 24, 2006

mustangguy30000 said:
I just made a major observation out there. I hadn't even thought about the alternator before, so I looked at it and it is jerry rigged to the max. But I think that this is modt likely the cause of it not starting. I had a little trouble with the alternator. Well what do you think about that?

hmmm, i do not see the alternator as the likely culprit........is it even used in the starting circuit???

did you pull a plug wire off while cranking to see if it is getting spark (be careful not to get shocked )

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

Yes I have checked all the plugs and i am getting a spark from all of them. I just put a new coil in and it doesn't seem like I am getting a strong spark from it. The color of the spark from the plugs are blue, the color from the coil is a reddish color. Seeing as though I just replaced it with a new one I really didn't think much of it.

mudbilly · May 24, 2006

ok, back to square 1...........

it ran before you messed with the carb???? maybe it is flooding

did you try starting it with the gas pedal floored? no pumping, just keep it to the floor while cranking........

also is the choke closed???

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

no I cleaned the carb while it wasnt running and it helped but still nothing yes i have tried it with it floored choke open and closed

mudbilly · May 24, 2006

if you leave the all the plugs in, but pull a wire off one of them.............how much distance from the plug will the spark travel ????

it should be a real strong spark and snap pretty loud, and travel at least a quarter inch..........

fuel, spark, timing............there is nothing else, unless something is broken inside the engine

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

dont say that because i dont want that to come true ne way the spark from the plugs are strong and it does travel that far and the engine almost starts it just doesnt and when i say it almost starts i can hear the exhaust coming out of the tailpipes it just doesnt keep going

krash kendall · May 24, 2006

Loosen the distributor bolt and have somebody crank the engine over while you turn the distributor back and forth to see if it helps at all.

How did you check for TDC and did you actually pull the distributor out?

krash kendall · May 24, 2006

mudbilly said:
i tend to agree.....(although i never heard of lack of compression if the cylinders are without oil ) ......

The excess fuel from a flooded situation washes the oil from the cylinder and rings thereby eliminating the good seal provided by the rings. It also thins the oil. This is how STP and Motor Honey increase your compression ratio just by thickening the oil. On an engine that has sat for a long time it is sometimes helpfull to give a couple of squirts of oil down the spark plug holes and turn it over a couple times if the rings are likely seized in their unexpanded state in the pistons to bring the compression up enough to start it.

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

Yes I did the first part as in turning the dist. while someone cranked it and nothing I left it in the position were it sounded like it started the best. To test for tdc I did what my mechanic told me to do I took a cotton ball and i put it in the hole plug just enough so that when it got up it would blow the cotton out and i didnt take it all the way out i lifted it just enough to be able to turn the rotor to the right position.

mudbilly · May 24, 2006

mustangguy30000 said:
Yes I did the first part as in turning the dist. while someone cranked it and nothing I left it in the position were it sounded like it started the best. To test for tdc I did what my mechanic told me to do I took a cotton ball and i put it in the hole plug just enough so that when it got up it would blow the cotton out and i didnt take it all the way out i lifted it just enough to be able to turn the rotor to the right position.

you could still be 180 off, there is compression on both strokes..........on the compression stroke it is much greater..........i used my finger in the plug hole to tell the difference kinda scary at first, and make sure that the coil wire is disconnected

also, this is one of the best tools i ever bought......i usually can't find anyone to help when i need it ...not this one exactly, i got it at a local parts store........

View attachment 467589

krash kendall · May 24, 2006

Well, I think you are definitely off on the distributor. It ran before you parked it and now you've re-stabbed it at least one tooth. Also, in case you didn't know your number one cylinder is the front passenger side.

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

ok here is what i just did i just went out there and the car started but it was only started while i had the key turned as soon as i let go of the key it died, because of this i do not beleive it is the distributor that is the problem. I still believe that it is the alternator because the battery will initially start the car but it is the alternator that keeps it going after it starts.

krash kendall · May 24, 2006

Ignition switch. Jump a wire from the positive side of the battery to the coil (the terminal opposite the one that goes to the distributor) then try to start it. You will need to pull the wire off to kill the engine.

EDIT: I went back and read that you already did that. Do you have a test light or multimeter?

mustangguy30000 · May 24, 2006

i tried that already and it didnt work

jbuening · May 24, 2006

To answer your first question, yes you can test the vacuum when the engine is turning over. I believe it is in either the Ford Manual or the Haynes manual. It states that (assuming the starter is cranking at a constant speed) if the vacuum gauge reading isnt' constant when cranking over, then you have a cylinder that is not contributing. Can others chime in on this thought? I'm 100% sure i read it in one of those manuals, cause i was running some tests on my car. Actually, i think it is in the beginning of the Tom Monroe Building Small Block Fords manual.

checking the vaccum

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