Chevy guy considering a Mustang....... come help.

[grendal]

Hey guys,

I have owned numerous Chevrolets and GM vehicles over my driving "career", and I'm 28 years old. My first car was an old V8 Malibu, followed by a V8 Cutlass Supreme. I deviated into the world of Mazda and Volkswagen for a while...

Then, I returned to a 2000 Camaro Z28 6-speed..... What a freakin' fun car! I have never had so much fun with a piece of machinery in my life.... The car ran 13.5's while stock, spinning the tires and pulling a 2.2x 60', heh... A blast... nothing short of it. However, I got tired of "exhibition of acceration" tickets and the inevitable speeding tickets that I would get -- whether deserving them or not -- just because I was in a Camaro.... So, I got a truck.

Then, I missed the Camaro. So, I got a used 1995 Camaro Z28 Auto, and I've been messing around with it for a year and a half or so now, and it's a fun car....

... But I miss having a fast, fun, manual-shifting daily driver. My truck has the V8 grunt, but with its enormous curb weight, it's not even remotely fast, and it handles like a '79 Coupe DeVille, heh... Of course, I can take nearly any terrain I want, including Houston's notorious high-water, but I still miss the fast daily driver ....

So... I'm considering selling the Z28, and trading in the Z71 truck on one of the following:

a) a used 2001-2002 Camaro Z28 or Trans Am 6-speed manual
b) a used 2001-2003 Mustang GT 5-speed manual
c) a used 2003 Mach1 5-speed

Limitations.. I want to keep my purchase price at or around 20k, and preferably below. This may limit me to a GT, although Mach1's are selling NEW here for 24k (Planet Ford, Houston), so I can see that in 4 to 6 months, an 2003 Mach1 could go for 19-20k....

But, let's say for a moment I can only afford a Mustang GT 5-speed. Let's say I am not interested in doing ANY internal engine mods at first (no cams), and I'm not interested in the expense of a supercharger, and I don't want the risk and high-wear of nitrous....

What kind of power can I expect out of a 5-speed GT with basic boltons, such as cold-air intake, headers, X/H-pipe, cat-back w/ high flow mufflers or only resonators (loud is OK), and maybe computer programming (93 octane only is OK).... Can I expect to get the kick in the pants I get with my cammed LT1 or my previous stock LS1?.... Should I just forget about it and buy a used LS1 F-body?

Thanks,

Michael

 

[tontot77]

wait a second for the 2003 used cobra's to start popping up, and then nab one... that is the best thing Ford has to offer the average Joe... buuuut, if you can't wait, then go with the 2001 GT if you plan on modding it, the Mach 1 if you just want a pretty car.

 

[Snarf]

Howdy

If you are looking to buy somethign ASAP, I would get the GT, as you could get one of those for 8 - 10k less than a new M1. Conversely, if you don't mind waiting, by all means get a used M1, they have a brochure-rated 40 HP edge over the GT's and most guys here will tell you its way more than that, which I agree with. Plus you get the beefier 4V motor which responds to the same mods much better than a 2V does, altho I have no fisrthand exp with them, its just what I've read on this and other sites.

I would say you could get a GT to 300-320 crank HP with assorted boltons, but the M1 would be prolly closer to 350 with the same tricks installed. Don't forget tho, that you hypothetically bought the GT for 17K ish, which leaves a fair amount of spending room before you equal the price of a stock M1

It basically comes down to how long do you want to wait, and how much do you wanna spend.

I would go the M1 route, personally Great great car.

 

[bamf70]

Plenty of cars as fast or faster then mine with just bolt ons. With susp this year I expect 12.5 out of mine and it looks bone stock and sounds just a little louder than stock. I have destroyed more than a few LS1s on the track and on the street. That doesn't mean it's for you. If you like top end an LS1 is just plain mean. An 03 Cobra is in that class as well. I think a Mustang looks and drives 100x better than any F body can, but its all about compromises. There's only so much you can get from 281 ci. Good luck with your choice.

 

[jjgoat]

I just picked up a 2004 GT premium coupe with interior upgrade package and the traction control for 19,500 in Houston. There are deals to be had on new GTs. I am like you though, a Chevy man as well. I currently have a '99 Corvette coupe but have owned several Mustangs in the past along with a '97 Formula. I have enjoyed the Mustang so far, its more of a muscle car then the Vette and has a little more growl to it when I shift which I missed. They are still underpowered though but with the plethera of mods out there its easy to make them super fast.

 

[HoustonGT]

Grendal and jjgoat, what part of Houston are you guys from? There are a bunch of H-Town guys here.
- I would say to wait a few months and nab a Mach1. Houston has so many dealerships, so im sure you can find a great deal. THe 4V responds alot better to mods and its also a limited production car. Alot of people have GT's, which isn't bad, but alot fewer people have 4V Stangs. Go with the Mach, and if you can wait even longe ror give up a few more g's, take the dive and pick up a Beast (03 Cobra)

 

[Spazilton]

Yup The deals ford has going on at the moment are amazing. Picked up mine after rebates for right at 19K.

 

[road rage]

Fina a nice GT for around $13K-15K and use the left over money to buy mods. You wont be dissapointed when your finished. Nothing sounds like a stang.

 

[jjgoat]

HoustonGT, I am in SugarLand. I thought about the Mach I but since I was paying cash I have a certain amount I was going to spend and I also needed the car rather quickly (needed 2nd car with a back seat to transport the small kiddos). I am actually going to wait and see how the 05 turns out and what sort of deals you can get on them, maybe trade the 04 in for one.

So is there a local Mustang club? Do you have regular get togethers around town?

 

[PezKing]

you could get a GT, then spend the extra money on a Kenne Belle supercharger. that's what it'd do if i had that money!

 

[70stangcoupe]

If I were you, I'd go Ls1.

But if you do get a Mustang, you're allowed to shave your mullet.

Your choice.

 

[Solid Snake]

Full bolt-ons (full exhaust, TB, MAF, CAI, T/A, etc.) pushing near 280rwhp/320rwtq. You're not going to get anywhere near the power levels of modded LS1's with bolt-ons on the 4.6L SOHC. The DOHC, on the other hand, can hang right there with LS!'s power-wise until the 350rwhp-range where som internal engine mods or power adders are required.

 

[SilverHorse]

I recommend keeping the Camaro or getting a newer SS version. You would have to dump a ton of money in a GT just to get to where the SS is. Thounds of dollars just to get back something you already had. As for the Mach 1, it still has less power than an SS and it will cost even more to make faster that the SS. Perhaps a late model C4 or C5 'Vette is something to consider. I know this is a Mustang board and I favor them over Camaros simply because of their styling. Even so, I woul never want to tangle with an SS. It's simply a more powerful car and has much more potential at a lower cost.

 

[bamf70]

I recommend keeping the Camaro or getting a newer SS version. You would have to dump a ton of money in a GT just to get to where the SS is. Thounds of dollars just to get back something you already had. As for the Mach 1, it still has less power than an SS and it will cost even more to make faster that the SS. Perhaps a late model C4 or C5 'Vette is something to consider. I know this is a Mustang board and I favor them over Camaros simply because of their styling. Even so, I woul never want to tangle with an SS. It's simply a more powerful car and has much more potential at a lower cost.

That was one of the dumbest posts I've read here. Thousands of $ to get to where his SS was? PUHLEASE. 13.5 is NOT a hard time to hit with a GT. Assuming of course you have a clue how to drive. JayC hit 13.45 with weld in flows an o/r X pipe and stock 3.27s on STREET TIRES for cripes sake. A stock LS1 is nothing to fear if you have a modded GT. You will win some and lose some depending on driver and degree of modification you have to your car.

 

[SilverHorse]

That was one of the dumbest posts I've read here. Thousands of $ to get to where his SS was? PUHLEASE. 13.5 is NOT a hard time to hit with a GT. Assuming of course you have a clue how to drive. JayC hit 13.45 with weld in flows an o/r X pipe and stock 3.27s on STREET TIRES for cripes sake. A stock LS1 is nothing to fear if you have a modded GT. You will win some and lose some depending on driver and degree of modification you have to your car.

Whatever dude. You are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong you are. Did you bother to read how the LS1 was spinning the whole way down the track? If there was traction what could it have achieved? Probably better numbers. Comparing a SS to a GT is like apples to oranges. It's a simple fact that Mustang performance to the Camaro out of the box is sub-standard. Only since the Cobra was introduced as a supercharged car was it able to beat it. What would a blown SS do? Read in MM&FF how the SS makes 330 + HP in spite of the intake not because of it. So much potential.

I don't think for one second you buddies GT would stomp and SS with those mods. Additionally, give the cars comparable mods and the gap gets worse. Like I said, I prefer the Mustang but there is no denying the out of box power of the SS nor is there any doubt about is't potential once the aftermarket is thrown at it. Anyone who does is a fool.

 

[bamf70]

Whatever dude. You are entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong you are. Did you bother to read how the LS1 was spinning the whole way down the track? If there was traction what could it have achieved? Probably better numbers. Comparing a SS to a GT is like apples to oranges. It's a simple fact that Mustang performance to the Camaro out of the box is sub-standard. Only since the Cobra was introduced as a supercharged car was it able to beat it. What would a blown SS do? Read in MM&FF how the SS makes 330 + HP in spite of the intake not because of it. So much potential.

I don't think for one second you buddies GT would stomp and SS with those mods. Additionally, give the cars comparable mods and the gap gets worse. Like I said, I prefer the Mustang but there is no denying the out of box power of the SS nor is there any doubt about is't potential once the aftermarket is thrown at it. Anyone who does is a fool.

See the only problem here is you are bench racing man. Have you been to the track and raced any LS1s with your GT? I have and unless it had a PA I haven't lost to one yet. That doesn't mean Im faster then all LS1s out there, but it means I can drive a little bit. JayC who did the 13.45 run basically stock can drive a little too. Your statement was and is WRONG. Ive seen LS1 cars run from 13.1 to 14.1 at the track. Why? Because track conditions and driver ability all count. Saying it takes thousands of dollars to run with and beat LS1 cars is stupid. It does not. Tires some suspension a few extra HP and practice is all it takes to run 12s. There are some freak LS1 cars that can run 12s out of the box but don't fool yourself into thinking an LS1 is unbeatable, because it is not. I speak from time at the track not from opinion based on magazine stats.

What you said about hp out of the box is 100% correct. The Stang (5spd) will dyno about 230 to the wheels stock while an average LS1 will be over 300 and Ive heard some go as high as 320. That's a major advantage. But you need to consider it has 10.5:1 CR and 65 more cubes than a new 9.4:1 281ci Stang.

 

[SilverHorse]

See the only problem here is you are bench racing man. Have you been to the track and raced any LS1s with your GT? I have and unless it had a PA I haven't lost to one yet. That doesn't mean Im faster then all LS1s out there, but it means I can drive a little bit. JayC who did the 13.45 run basically stock can drive a little too. Your statement was and is WRONG. Ive seen LS1 cars run from 13.1 to 14.1 at the track. Why? Because track conditions and driver ability all count. Saying it takes thousands of dollars to run with and beat LS1 cars is stupid. It does not. Tires some suspension a few extra HP and practice is all it takes to run 12s. There are some freak LS1 cars that can run 12s out of the box but don't fool yourself into thinking an LS1 is unbeatable, because it is not. I speak from time at the track not from opinion based on magazine stats.

What you said about hp out of the box is 100% correct. The Stang (5spd) will dyno about 230 to the wheels stock while an average LS1 will be over 300 and Ive heard some go as high as 320. That's a major advantage. But you need to consider it has 10.5:1 CR and 65 more cubes than a new 9.4:1 281ci Stang.

I'm starting to think you might be racing a lot of LS1s whos drivers are not as good as you are. You also make the same argument that most 'Stang owners make against the Camaro about it having a bigger engine. If it's an unfair fight then why compare the two? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think the SS is unbeatable but I do think that people saying because they have an X pipe they will smoke anything. That sounds a dumb as a Honda owner thinking his cold air kit will allow him to beat a 5.0. You quoted the facts yourself about the differences in the car. Because I did the same I must be a bench racer and you would be Don Garlits? I'm not trying to be a jerk but this argument does hold water.

 

[SilverHorse]

Sorry, meant to say it does NOT hold water.

 

[bamf70]

I'm starting to think you might be racing a lot of LS1s whos drivers are not as good as you are. You also make the same argument that most 'Stang owners make against the Camaro about it having a bigger engine. If it's an unfair fight then why compare the two? That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't think the SS is unbeatable but I do think that people saying because they have an X pipe they will smoke anything. That sounds a dumb as a Honda owner thinking his cold air kit will allow him to beat a 5.0. You quoted the facts yourself about the differences in the car. Because I did the same I must be a bench racer and you would be Don Garlits? I'm not trying to be a jerk but this argument does hold water.

There is no doubt most guys Ive raced sucked, but Ive raced guys that can drive a little too. I talk with most everybody I raced. The PA guys all told me what I told you, 13.1-14.1 avg about 13.5 around me. At sea level the #s are better of course. I'm not arguing the fact the SS has a bigger engine or anything, just pointing out the facts. Higher CR and more cubes is one way to be a lot quicker than us out of the box. The Stang is what it is. Im saying a few well spent $ and practice is all it takes, not thousands just to run with them. I agree with your X pipe comment. That is stupid, but that wasn't brought up here. My comments were based on my track time and conversation with the guys I've raced. You made no such comments (that you said were from your track exp). I can say a Mustang will run 13.7 stock because MM&FF did it. Doesn't mean I've met or watched one do it.

 

[wjfawb0]

If you get a GT the blower route is the cheapest way to get past the 300rwhp mark. By the time you do all the easy bolt on mods to get to 260rwhp, you could have purchased a mongoose kit from Cobra Killer and be making 350rwhp. The sheer number 99-04 GTs running a centrifugal with the steeda tune or one of Cobra Killers' tunes without problems (hundreds) speaks for itself. It only takes about $4000 to turn a stock 01-02GT into a 350rwhp supercharged GT if you can handle the install. You can get 380rwhp out of a near stock windsor block 99-00GT with the lower 9:1 compression (compared to the 9.4:1 01-04GT).

However, it sounds like to me that the used 01-02 SS is what you would be most happy with. You get the fast car to start with that only needs intake, exhaust, cams to get down the track in less than 12 seconds.

-Jason