Choosing Suspension components

streetstang67 · Apr 30, 2005

Over the summer, I hope to work on my car as much as possible...here's the suspension things I want to do:

Replace Shocks: KYB GR-2 or Edelbrock
New Coils: 620 or 720
New Leafs: 4.5 or 5
Install sub frame connectors
Box in control arms
Install Monte Carlo bar
Replace strut rods
get Bump steer corrector kit
Shelby quick steer kit
Get Adjustable Eccentric Eliminator Kit

What do you think? Is all that good stuff? Am I leaving anything out? Any opinions welcome.

geostang351 · Apr 30, 2005

Looks good. I have about 80% of those things (no subframes) biggest notice for me was 1 1/8" sway bar. LOVE IT!!

streetstang67 · Apr 30, 2005

Which shocks, coils, and leafs would you suggest?

DarkBuddha · May 1, 2005

That's a pretty good basic list you've got, but I can only offer a few comments...

Replace Shocks: KYB GR-2 or Edelbrock - good choices, but the important part is to balance shocks with spring rates. Typically, the two most common philosophies are stiff spring/soft shock or soft spring/stiff shock. This is why adjustable shocks are so cool.

New Coils: 620 or 720 - careful going too firm with spring rates, especially if you plan to drive it on the street. Again, balance the spring choice with the shock choice.

New Leafs: 4.5 or 5 - more leafs usually means a stiffer spring rate, so again, match your shock and spring choices.

Install sub frame connectors - personally, the best chassis mod I have ever done. Do it!!!

Box in control arms - if you're doing it yourself and plan to drive the car hard, it's an excellent cheap mod.

Install Monte Carlo bar - yes, absolutely anything to help triangulate the shocktowers will add integrity and strength.

Replace strut rods - if you're gonna spend the coin to replace 'em, seriously consider aftermarket tubular designs. They're pricier, but also more durable.

get Bump steer corrector kit - only if you need it, which usually depends on how much you lower the car.

Shelby quick steer kit - I've heard they're very effective, but won't work if you've got power steering.

Get Adjustable Eccentric Eliminator Kit - cheap enough and it will definitely help maintain alignment settings.

It looks like you've done your homework already, but if you're looking for some more thoughts (mine specifically), you might check the link in my sig. Whatever you decide, definitely post your impressions when you finish up stuff. The reality and what theoretically works often aren't the same, so real world feedback is valuable info for others.

Hope this helps...

Opentracker · May 1, 2005

I would add that you should replace the rubber bushing in the lower arm and spring perch with a greased poly bushing, or a bearing.

A matched set of sway bars will help too. If you use a 1" front bar go with a 3/4" rear bar, with a 1 1/8" front go with a 7/8" rear. I have the big sway bars on my daily car and I like the way it drives. I wish someone would come out with a 1 1/4" front bar to use with the 1" rear that is on the market now. The Camaro guys can get a 1.33" front bar, why can't we?

Just a note about boxing the arms. We ran our first two years of open track with stock arms. They are plenty strong for a street car. The rubber pivot points of the suspension need help first in my opinion ( strut rod, spring perch, lower arm, idler arm ).

John

HistoricMustang · May 1, 2005

Just my two cents:

www.historicmustang.com/tech.html

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

streetstang67 · May 1, 2005

I would add that you should replace the rubber bushing in the lower arm and spring perch with a greased poly bushing, or a bearing.

What do you mean about the rubber bushings on the lower arm and spring perch?

Just a note about boxing the arms. We ran our first two years of open track with stock arms. They are plenty strong for a street car.

The upper susp. arms I have now are the ones that came on the car from the factory, I've repalced the ball joints. The lower's are new. Do you think they could have weakened over the years, or should I just not box them in?

the important part is to balance shocks with spring rates. Typically, the two most common philosophies are stiff spring/soft shock or soft spring/stiff shock.

Which would you suggest? stiff spring and soft shock or soft shock and stiff spring. I currently have relatively new Gabriel shocks, which are soft, but if stiff would be better, I'm willing to spend the money...?

Replace strut rods - if you're gonna spend the coin to replace 'em, seriously consider aftermarket tubular designs. They're pricier, but also more durable.

What strut rods do you suggest?

get Bump steer corrector kit - only if you need it, which usually depends on how much you lower the car.

Ok, I already have done the "shelby drop" one inch, and depending on what springs I get, I'm not sure how much I'll lower the car...at what point of lowering would the kit be needed?

Thanks for all the advice!!

DarkBuddha · May 1, 2005

streetstang67 said:
Which would you suggest? stiff spring and soft shock or soft shock and stiff spring. I currently have relatively new Gabriel shocks, which are soft, but if stiff would be better, I'm willing to spend the money...?

This is a tough question since you can get very similar results with both approaches. I think I personally like the softer spring/stiffer shock combo, like using cut stock springs or 620 lbs. with a good gas charged shock (like your Gabriel or Monroe). I've heard the KYB gasajust shocks can be a bit stiff in combination with stiff springs. That said, if you're willing to spend the cash, go with a good multi-adjustable shock like a Koni that provides both adjustable bump and rebound settings.[/QUOTE]

streetstang67 said:
What strut rods do you suggest?

Any of the major aftermarket rods are better than the stock ones. If you've got skills, you might build a set of your own, Opentracker style. Otherwise, I hear Street or Track's setup is a decent deal.

streetstang67 said:
Ok, I already have done the "shelby drop" one inch, and depending on what springs I get, I'm not sure how much I'll lower the car...at what point of lowering would the kit be needed?

You need the kit when bump steer becomes present. If you find the car darting to the left or right after going over a bump, pothole, railroad tracks, etc., then you could probably benefit from a bump steer correction kit. Otherwise, it's probably you're not gonna see0 much benefit. If you've been driving the car since doing the Shelby drop, you should have some indication of whether you need it or not, since the Shelby drop usually increases bump steer.

69Mach351 · May 1, 2005

fwiw, i have not heard anything good about edelbrock shocks from people that have tried them, so i would stay clear of those.

streetstang67 · May 1, 2005

I'm also looking for anything that could improve my crappy 19:1 steering box...do you know of anything?

Opentracker · May 2, 2005

What do you mean about the rubber bushings on the lower arm and spring perch?

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=487944

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=480075

Check out these two threads.

The upper susp. arms I have now are the ones that came on the car from the factory, I've repalced the ball joints. The lower's are new. Do you think they could have weakened over the years, or should I just not box them in?

The arms we used were original Ford units. They made a damn good arm back then. The racers look for original arms to work with as do I. They have a better stamping and thicker steel. Check for cracks around the ball joint area and the spring perch mounting points. If they look good, save your money and do some other things that will bring more bang for your buck. You can brace them at any point along the way. I box my own arms and if you would like a template they are free, send me a email myradpc@earthlink.net

Cobra Automotive brace

Opentracker Racing Products brace

John

bnickel · May 2, 2005

personally i like the stiff spring, soft shock combo, the suspension is a bit more compliant in my opinion, the soft pring stiff shock combo is a bit more bone jarring, i have both combos, stiff spring/soft shock on the stang and soft spring/stiff shock on my DD 93 cherokee. the jeep just about kills me when i'm driving it, but it actually handles really well for a top heavy suv. it actually isn't as top heavy as it looks though, i normally take freeway clover leaf off ramps at 40-45 in it which is pretty darn good for a 2wd truck with a solid front axle. as a comparison my old 78 mustang II was only slightly quicker on the off ramps, and it was almost a perfect 50/50 balance with the 4 banger, auto and 3.40 traction lok 8" rearend it had a soft spring stiff shock cambo as well.

grego37 · May 2, 2005

I recently changed from 620 to progressive spring rate with adj. koni shocks, I love the new feel.

Id highly reccomend the bronze bushed 'rollerized' spring perchs. well worth the money, an excellent mod. very noticable. check ebay

Invest in some good tires, as wide as you can squeeze in the fenders.

If you can afford it id run the TCP rack & pinion.
Global West upper and lower arms.

DarkBuddha · May 2, 2005

bnickel said:
personally i like the stiff spring, soft shock combo, the suspension is a bit more compliant in my opinion, the soft pring stiff shock combo is a bit more bone jarring

HERESY! NAYSAYER! LOON!!! DON'T LISTEN TO HIM.... HIS CAR IS MADE OF CARDBOARD, DUCT TAPE, AND JB WELD! MY HIGH TECH PARTICLE BOARD CAR IS MUCH FASTER AND HANDLES BETTER...

j/k I'm always glad when everyone starts chiming in with their opinions and insight. It just goes to show there are differing opinions on these matters. I'd like to say any of us knew definitively one way or the other, but bnickel's experience is just evidence that different cars can act differently, even with the same general setup ideas. Trial and error is probably the best (and most expensive) way to find out what will work best for your driving style and goals.

streetstang67 · May 2, 2005

Well I guess I'll try the stiff spring, soft shock combo since I already have plain gabriel gas shocks. So what stiff springs would you suggest? or proggressive rate?

bnickel · May 2, 2005

so now you have to go and throw in the progressive rate idea, huh?

like DB said every car can be set up different for each person individual style. also comparing a jeep cheokee to a classic stang isn't the greatest comparision but i know what before and after was like on both of them and which i liked best of the two on each car.

another reason i don't like really stiff shocks is that they tend to want to put big holes in the rear shock mounts, ask me how i know about that one. a lot of people are leaning toward the european style suspensions of soft spring/stiff shock combos's lately which is all well and good, but something that i don't think a lot of people take into consideration is that the european cars mostly have strut type suspensions with the lever arm of the strut being closer to the lower ball joint which obviously gives greater leverage on the suspension so a stiff spring is not needed, on an early stang the lever arm of the spring is much farther away therefore a stiffer spring is used. now if you were to change the suspension design and go to a strut type suspension like TCP, GW, RRS or Dolfan87's setup you can go with a softer spring since the stiffer spring isn't needed.

there also is another factor at work here as well and that is weight, the less weight you have on the suspension the less spring rate you'll need. for instance i run a 720 spring on the front of my car but i have an iron headed 351w with ps and ac so i have more mass to support and control. on your car you have a 289 with no ps or ac and a 289, if you decide to go with aluminum heads that knocks off even more weight, so you don't need a 720 spring on your car as it will most likely be too stiff. i would go with a 620 spring on your car. or the progressive rate eibachs either will work well for you but i think with your car being so light in the front end already you'd like the 620's better. i think the progressive arte springs are better suited to more nose heavy cars with 351 and up engines.

streetgrande69 · May 2, 2005

streetstang67 said:
Well I guess I'll try the stiff spring, soft shock combo since I already have plain gabriel gas shocks. So what stiff springs would you suggest? or proggressive rate?

i for one dont like the buddah or that texan....... don't listen to either....quacks i tell ya quacks!
lol

i actualy like a really soft car, feels like i'm pimpin'

serious now. i do like the edelbrocks, the 620's. its a daily driver and it rough, but handels well on smooth stuff.i can get thrown around when it gets bumpy. i also have a 1 5/8 sway bar in front which is over kill. whith that sway bar, on the street, i should step down to eith progressives or 550 springs. just one thing to keep in mind.....the sway bar adds dramatic increases to the overall stiffness of the car.

i just want to say, buy a few books, understand why you want stiffer springs, determing your unsprung weight, measure for bumpsteer, do the math, become educated to why, then buy the items you need to make corrections.

bnickel · May 3, 2005

streetgrande69 said:
i for one dont like the buddah or that texan....... don't listen to either....quacks i tell ya quacks!
lol

i actualy like a really soft car, feels like i'm pimpin'

serious now. i do like the edelbrocks, the 620's. its a daily driver and it rough, but handels well on smooth stuff.i can get thrown around when it gets bumpy. i also have a 1 5/8 sway bar in front which is over kill. whith that sway bar, on the street, i should step down to eith progressives or 550 springs. just one thing to keep in mind.....the sway bar adds dramatic increases to the overall stiffness of the car.

i just want to say, buy a few books, understand why you want stiffer springs, determing your unsprung weight, measure for bumpsteer, do the math, become educated to why, then buy the items you need to make corrections.

E, where in the hell did you find a 1-5/8" sway bar?that's gotta be an absolute monster

streetgrande69 · May 3, 2005

bnickel said:
E, where in the hell did you find a 1-5/8" sway bar?that's gotta be an absolute monster

i ment 1 1/8"

i'm a dork

LMan · May 3, 2005

streetgrande69 said:
i'm a dork

Choosing Suspension components

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