Cobra

Gearbanger 101 · Jan 19, 2009

MakotoS13 said:
the shelby sure as hell isn't.

That's your personal opinion and you’re entitled to it. But I still haven't seen you produce a better performing, similarly optioned car for the money yet?

MakotoS13 said:
uhm, no, the only difference would be a properly designed powerplant with weigh savings in mind instead of the lazy method of throwing a truck motor in as an afterthought. and corvette prices? last time i checked a c6 costs less than a GT500 and in better in every conceivable way.

That "truck motor" saves you a pile of money. Like I said, they could produce an all aluminum engine, that made that kind of power and gone with tubular suspension components, lighter weight materials, etc....but you would pay for it on the big end.

As for the cost of the Corvette...how do you figure at nearly $49,000 as a base price, its cheaper than the Shelby?

Like I said...you get what you pay for. You want better performance, buy a Roush, or a Saleen, but be prepared to pay the cost....cause it ain't free!

MakotoS13 said:
i don't care about paying 40K for a special mustang. the GT is the budget racer, the cobra is supposed to be all out. so trhow a good 32 valve powerplant in the car that doesn't add 400lbs to the dang thing with a dang T56 behind it.

It has a good 32-valve power plant....or are your math skills not up to par? 4-valves per cylinder x 8 cylinders = 32V Andy way you slice it....a 32V engine is going to add weight...no ifs, ands or butts about it....so get over it.

And do you have a comprehension problem? The Supercharge 5.4L engine alone isn't responsible for the 400lb weight increase. I thought I explained that to you twice already? Look, if you're going to continue to argue, the least you could do is do me the courtesy of acknowledging the points being made. Ignoring them and bantering (and yes, you're bantering) on about the same old thing is starting to make you look simple?

And what good does making an "all out" race car do if your average Joe can't afford it. I still don't see the basis of your argument here. Are you mad because its too expensive, or are you mad because it doesn't perform as well as you'd like it to? It can't be both.

As far as cost goes, you can buy a stock GT and lose all the way across the board against the Shelby. Or, you could pony up the bucks and barely get a new non supercharged Roush Stage 2, or high end Saleen for the cost of the Shelby....which would gain you the handling, but you would still loose horribly in the power aspect.

On the other hand you can go with the Supercharged version of each car, beat the Shelby around the track, still lose in a strait line and spend another $10K to do it.

Nope, the Shelby still sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

MakotoS13 said:
and weight doesn't matter that much if you're drag racing. more power and sticker tires with stronger stuff in between. it gets exponentially worse in corners.

Keep telling yourself that. My car weighs 4,200lbs with driver and runs high-12's at about 108mph. If I dropped my powertrain into an SN95, I'd knock an easy half second off of that number. Weight matters A LOT!!!

If you want the power, you've got to pay for it. You can't put glass jaw drivetrain components behind 500hp/500tq and expect them to survive. Especially if you expect Ford to provide you with 3-years worth of Warranty! Like I said before....lighter weight materials are available, but with them comes increased cost. So if I save $10,000 because my car over all is 400lbs heavier than some dude is his Roush or Saleen and I'm still able to blow their doors off at the strip, I'm more than happy!!!

MakotoS13 said:
yep, that video is a perfect example of a near 3600lb car handing it to a over 3900lb car that has more power.

A perfect example of what? What a more expensive hard top can do against a heavier Convertible (the vert is 4040lbs, not 3,900lbs)? Hardly a fair comparison to run a hard top Stage 3 against a convertible Shelby around the track, wouldn't you think? It’s yet another case of apples vs. Oranges IMO….or do I need to explain to you the advantages of structural integrity and stiffness when comparing a hard top to a convertible?

Not to mention that in order to option out the Roush the same as the Shelby you're talking a $50,000 price tag when all is said and done. So great...the Roush beats the Shelby around the corners and still gets smoked at the strip....and it only costs you another $10k to do it. I don't know about you, but if I was paying $10,000 more for a car, I would want it to win all across the board, not just around the corners.

What else ya got?

AvalancheSVT · Jan 19, 2009

Gearbanger 101 said:
That's your personal opinion and you’re entitled to it. But I still haven't seen you produce a better performing, similarly optioned car for the money yet?

did you miss the C6 corvette part?

That "truck motor" saves you a pile of money. Like I said, they could produce an all aluminum engine, that made that kind of power and gone with tubular suspension components, lighter weight materials, etc....but you would pay for it on the big end.

so take the shelby name off and save the publick 10-15 grand. i remember when SVT cobras were 30-35K, now they're like 50K depending on how hard the dealer wants to stick you.

As for the cost of the Corvette...how do you figure at nearly $49,000 as a base price, its cheaper than the Shelby?

well i was thinking they were still around 45K but that doesn't matter. for the same money (try to haggle on a shelby then try to haggle on a base model vette) the vette is better looking, faster, better handling, better optioned, and its a real life sports car. if you like going fast, buy the vette for 50K, if you like having something to brag about get the shelby and enjoy your two ton car.
[QUOTEIt has a good 32-valve power plant....or are your math skills not up to par? 4-valves per cylinder x 8 cylinders = 32V Andy way you slice it....a 32V engine is going to add weight...no ifs, ands or butts about it....so get over it.

never said it didn't, genius.

And do you have a comprehension problem? The Supercharge 5.4L engine alone isn't responsible for the 400lb weight increase. I thought I explained that to you twice already? Look, if you're going to continue to argue, the least you could do is do me the courtesy of acknowledging the points being made. Ignoring them and bantering (and yes, you're bantering) on about the same old thing is starting to make you look simple?

Click to expand...

its responsible for MOST of it. if you wan to start ethugging and just talking trash be my guest but you're playing tic tac toe with yourself.

And what good does making an "all out" race car do if your average Joe can't afford it. I still don't see the basis of your argument here. Are you mad because its too expensive, or are you mad because it doesn't perform as well as you'd like it to? It can't be both.

Click to expand...

im not mad at all. the cobra isn't the average joe car, that's the GT's job.

As far as cost goes, you can buy a stock GT and lose all the way across the board against the Shelby. Or, you could pony up the bucks and barely get a new non supercharged Roush Stage 2, or high end Saleen for the cost of the Shelby....which would gain you the handling, but you would still loose horribly in the power aspect.

Click to expand...

maybe on a dyno, not when you're actually driving the thing.

On the other hand you can go with the Supercharged version of each car, beat the Shelby around the track, still lose in a strait line and spend another $10K to do it.

Nope, the Shelby still sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Click to expand...

Keep telling yourself that. My car weighs 4,200lbs with driver and runs high-12's at about 108mph. If I dropped my powertrain into an SN95, I'd knock an easy half second off of that number. Weight matters A LOT!!!

Click to expand...

are you fuggin kiddin me? it was a comparative statement regarding straight line vs cornering+straight line performance.

read, then post.

If you want the power, you've got to pay for it. You can't put glass jaw drivetrain components behind 500hp/500tq and expect them to survive. Especially if you expect Ford to provide you with 3-years worth of Warranty! Like I said before....lighter weight materials are available, but with them comes increased cost. So if I save $10,000 because my car over all is 400lbs heavier than some dude is his Roush or Saleen and I'm still able to blow their doors off at the strip, I'm more than happy!!!

Click to expand...

clearly. if you have a GT500 that more than explains this conversation. of course you're going to defend it, you paid a lot of money for the car. if you like it, thats great, i don't like cars that weigh two tons. thats me. i wouldn't spend 50 grand on a mustang for the same reason i wouldn't spend 100 grand on a vette.

it changes the whole reason why the car is such a good car.

What else ya got?

Click to expand...

clearly not enough to match the amount of value you place on a nametag or the amount of denial you've managed to muster.

look, the gt500 is a good car but don't try to pretend for a second that for 50K any mustang is a bargain because that simply isn't true and it isn't supposed to be.

the shelby is a "special" car. as such it will cost more due to the fact that it is special and this fact is compounded by the shelby nameplate. it really is great marketing, provide the same product you were going to offer but put a special nameplate on it and charge another 15K for it. your dealers are even happier because they can tack on another 10 grand that most people will pay.

i mean hey, its a special car right?

ufnavy06 · Jan 19, 2009

Just my .02 here. The car Ford should make is a Cobra R, not a Cobra. 10 years is too long. The GT500 is the Cobra now, face it. Doesn't mean they can't do an R. I know people will moan because it wouldn't be the baddest of the bad, but the Shelby deal seems to have effectively ended those awesome SE Mustangs. Which is sad, as I know an owner of a '95 R and it is hands down his favorite Mustang to drive. (he owns an '03 Cobra with 650 rwhp, ironically, which he's selling to buy a GB '10 GT500).

Make the R by gutting the GT500, give us the 5.4 in it, N/A, (see 2000 Cobra R). I think that would sell nicely. You could probably sneak it in there for under $40,000 too.

MilwaukeeFoxBod · Jan 31, 2009

oh9mustang said:
I sure do wish Ford would make a cobra again.
For those that like the Shelby GT 500, I say , good for you, and those that like Verts, I say good for you.
That being said, Shelby is an old fart that talked SVT into putting his name on a line of cars. Good for him , I guess. They are over priced and not very fast for what they have in them. The handling is not so good , as the Roush will drive right around a Shelby on a road course track.
Except for the Shelby GT 350R, The old Shelby's are just GTs with AC and some badges, To his credit those old Shelby's are worth 20 to 30 times what they coast new. But that don't make them good, it just makes them a good investment. I would guess the new Shelby's are going to increase in price also, but again, that don't make them good, just a good investment.
I just don't like the look of a Shelby, I don't like strips, I like 4 headlights. To those that like the Shelby, you have to realize that not everyone likes the car, and that don't mean you shouldn't.
If Ford would make a Cobra, I would get one, no strips, fast and handle. With a Snake and COBRA on the back bumper.

Just an opinion

Aww, I just knew this post would get some people's panties in a bundle.
I agree with oh9mustang. :Zip2:

BLUE OVAL NUT · Feb 1, 2009

ufnavy06 said:
Just my .02 here. The car Ford should make is a Cobra R, not a Cobra. 10 years is too long. The GT500 is the Cobra now, face it. Doesn't mean they can't do an R. I know people will moan because it wouldn't be the baddest of the bad, but the Shelby deal seems to have effectively ended those awesome SE Mustangs. Which is sad, as I know an owner of a '95 R and it is hands down his favorite Mustang to drive. (he owns an '03 Cobra with 650 rwhp, ironically, which he's selling to buy a GB '10 GT500).

Make the R by gutting the GT500, give us the 5.4 in it, N/A, (see 2000 Cobra R). I think that would sell nicely. You could probably sneak it in there for under $40,000 too.

I'm thinking that the FR500 and the new Cobra Jet is what we will call modern interpretations of the Cobra R. The FR500 are for the SCCA etc and the Cobra Jet for the NHRA gang. JMO

AvalancheSVT · Feb 1, 2009

BLUE OVAL NUT said:
I'm thinking that the FR500 and the new Cobra Jet is what we will call modern interpretations of the Cobra R. The FR500 are for the SCCA etc and the Cobra Jet for the NHRA gang. JMO

no, a cobra R should be a gutted shelby, only in red, trick snakehead hood, with a splitter, and a fully functional wing.

no AC, stereo, wheel well covers, carpet, backseat, or spare.

the thing should have 500hp at least and weigh less than the GT mustang.

it should have sidepipes, IRS, and a six speed with some big nasty brembos and 18" wheels.

the last cobra R was very very respectable in its performance. i once saw a test where it was almost neck in neck with a lotus elise with a engine swap and a turbo upgrade at TWICE the elise's weight.

the cobra R should never be a drag car, that would just be totally homosexual.

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 1, 2009

MakotoS13 said:
no, a cobra R should be a gutted shelby, only in red, trick snakehead hood, with a splitter, and a fully functional wing.

no AC, stereo, wheel well covers, carpet, backseat, or spare.

the thing should have 500hp at least and weigh less than the GT mustang.

it should have sidepipes, IRS, and a six speed with some big nasty brembos and 18" wheels.

the last cobra R was very very respectable in its performance. i once saw a test where it was almost neck in neck with a lotus elise with a engine swap and a turbo upgrade at TWICE the elise's weight.

the cobra R should never be a drag car, that would just be totally homosexual.

Perhaps....but why couldn't it be built sans the splitter and rear spoiler, with a small displacement engine, solid axle rear end, full exhaust and stock hood like the 1st generation Cobra R....or be offered the same way in larger displacement engine and painted refrigerator white like the 2nd gereration Cobra R's? They boasted very respectable perfomance for their time as well? And why should the be based of Shelby's at all? The originals weren't. Hell...the 2nd Generation Cobra R started life as a V6 car for goodness sake.

The FR500 pretty much follows the tradition of the Cobra R models anyway, so what reason should Ford have to bring it back at all? Should we bring back the Ranchero and the Torino as well....perhaps a Probe GT or a Contour SVT maybe?

AvalancheSVT · Feb 1, 2009

the cobra R was iconic (the most recent one anyways), the contour was cool. there is a difference

Gearbanger 101 · Feb 2, 2009

MakotoS13 said:
the cobra R was iconic (the most recent one anyways).

That it was....but which of the 3 of them should they revive. Should it be the most recent, because its the one you were actually old enough to appreciate? They're all iconic in their own way and each one set records in their class. Maybe you're a little young to remember how popular the first two were. Especially the '95 Cobra R. It's probably the most well rounded of the bunch?

Stryfe8822 · Feb 2, 2009

You I wish ford would allow you to buy the mustang without power windows power locks and even a/c if you so desire. Don't get me wrong I need a/c but the power locks and windows I can do without, they always end up breaking. Also 5.4 n/a power now that is a mustang I would love to have.

04YELLOWGT · Feb 9, 2009

Man I missed this thread. It seems like there are a lot of naive people in this thread that don't understand performance.

Gearbanger you are 100% correct on eveything you said.

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