computer chip in 89 5.0 w/mods good or bad?

vristang said:

So, David...
If the staff here pulls up your IP, would it place you in the vicinity of the SCT marketing department?

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Well... Seeing as how American Muscle is a Platinum Sponsor... I see their ads everywhere I go. It's almost like they're following me around. Thanks Google for dropping that cookie on me.

vristang said:

Don't take it personal Maryland... 2000xp8 jumps into every tuning thread that comes up and bags on everyone for tuning the ecu.... it's getting pretty comical really.

I have a Moates QH. 2000xp8 would tell you that I wasted that $250 dollars and that I will never see any gains from tuning the car myself... but I have tuned a couple of setups now, and can confirm with personal first hand knowledge on the subject... that tuning is worth the time/money.

I would never buy a mail order tune though.

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I'd say what's comical is the progress you make on your own car.
Let me know the wonderful results you get when you finish your car in 2020.
Where is the proof that any of your tuning works on anything? Kinda hard to prove something works when you don't finish it.

You believe in it, i don't.
If you like to tell a poster that you think it's necessary that's fine.
Ever notice that other than when you attack my opinion personally i don't respond to you?
Is it too much to expect the same?
You don't need to quote or even mention my name to get your own opinion across.
You could have simply posted that you think it's worth it, and left me out of it.

Noobz347 said:

I ain't buying anything from ANYONE who's names contains, "Bama" in it.

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So for lack of a real argument to support your biased position this is the best you can come up with?

2000xp8 said:

I'd say what's comical is the progress you make on your own car.
Let me know the wonderful results you get when you finish your car in 2020.
Where is the proof that any of your tuning works on anything? Kinda hard to prove something works when you don't finish it.

You believe in it, i don't.
If you like to tell a poster that you think it's necessary that's fine.
Ever notice that other than when you attack my opinion personally i don't respond to you?
Is it too much to expect the same?
You don't need to quote or even mention my name to get your own opinion across.
You could have simply posted that you think it's worth it, and left me out of it.

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Wow, getting pretty defensive and passive aggressive already...
I didn't really attack you, just countered your aggressive arguments, but you have lobbed 2 direct attacks at me in this one post.

How long it takes to build my car isn't part of the tuning discussion. All experience I have stems from what I have already done. I've posted my arguments/experiences/evidence before, and you always just stepped away from the discussion.
That is comical.
Should I waste my time now posting all of these arguments again? Not for your benefit!
Anyone truly interested can dig through my old threads...

And btw,
I am currently tuning my own 2.3 n/a engine using a 95 v8 Mustang ecu.
So, I guess you can't argue that I never do any tuning, huh?
(maybe you can tell everyone how experienced you are with tuning? I mean that since you KNOW that it isn't worth it... you must have tried it. Otherwise, how would you know if there are advantages to tuning, right?)

Trying to criticize the duration of my project, simply shows how you have nothing to bring to the table in this discussion except for personal attacks.

2000xp8 said:

You believe in it, i don't.
If you like to tell a poster that you think it's necessary that's fine.
Ever notice that other than when you attack my opinion personally i don't respond to you?
Is it too much to expect the same?
You don't need to quote or even mention my name to get your own opinion across.
You could have simply posted that you think it's worth it, and left me out of it.

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Ah, I should just post my opinion and let everyone else have their own?
ok... I have no issue with that, in fact it's a great approach in my opinion.


HOWEVER, YOU ALREADY TRIED TO DISCREDIT EVERYONE ELSE'S OPINION EXCEPT YOUR OWN!!!!

2000xp8 said:

Stang5011, unless your parts list is incomplete you have a bunch of mismatching parts.
Throttle body is too big, a 73mm meter is a C&L and that's not good, and your injectors are too big for anything without a good set of heads.
Ignore advice from anyone that thinks you should get a chip.

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You tell the OP to ignore everyone but you, but I am not allowed to directly respond to you?
Ya right....

opcorn:

So much emotion over a $200 computer chip. This is almost as much fun as when I told people that I actually bought and installed the March Ram Air kit. te-he....

What would you do-o-o-o-o for a Klondike Bar?

vristang said:

Wow, getting pretty defensive and passive aggressive already...
I didn't really attack you, just countered your aggressive arguments, but you have lobbed 2 direct attacks at me in this one post.

How long it takes to build my car isn't part of the tuning discussion. All experience I have stems from what I have already done. I've posted my arguments/experiences/evidence before, and you always just stepped away from the discussion.
That is comical.
Should I waste my time now posting all of these arguments again? Not for your benefit!
Anyone truly interested can dig through my old threads...

And btw,
I am currently tuning my own 2.3 n/a engine using a 95 v8 Mustang ecu.
So, I guess you can't argue that I never do any tuning, huh?
(maybe you can tell everyone how experienced you are with tuning? I mean that since you KNOW that it isn't worth it... you must have tried it. Otherwise, how would you know if there are advantages to tuning, right?)

Trying to criticize the duration of my project, simply shows how you have nothing to bring to the table in this discussion except for personal attacks.



Ah, I should just post my opinion and let everyone else have their own?
ok... I have no issue with that, in fact it's a great approach in my opinion.


HOWEVER, YOU ALREADY TRIED TO DISCREDIT EVERYONE ELSE'S OPINION EXCEPT YOUR OWN!!!!



You tell the OP to ignore everyone but you, but I am not allowed to directly respond to you?
Ya right....

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So you think the original posters combo is worthy of a custom chip?
My point was directed at him specifically, it wasn't a blanket statement. I knew if i did that you would respond, and here we are anyway, who knew.
That's why i used the word "you".

What does tuning a 2.3 with another computer have to do with anything?
I'd normally say it just plain old means you have too much time on your hands, but the lack of finishing your own real project suggests other wise.

Point it is I've done some tuning, on a couple of combo's and that is why I feel my opinion may have some value.
You have tuned nothing, but feel your opinion has value because of what others have told you about tuning.

good luck,
I'm done with this one.

2000xp8 said:

There really isn't any safe combo of parts that will go past the limiter on a stock 302 shortblock that does street duty.

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This just isn't true.

6 year old thread, FTW, BTW.

Ohhh no no. I truely am a NEWBY. And maybe I started to fall for some marketing and maybe wanted to believe it. Sheesh Im only researching at this point. My aod gave up and my focus has turned to finding the right T5 to do a conversion. Tuning will have to wait. I also believe that heads are truely the way to go before tuning. I AM a research junky and find it funny the lack of social skills people have, but truely do respect peoples experience.

2000xp8 said:

A mail order chip is like buying a set of eye glasses at the supermarket off the shelf.

Consider this, gt40p's, $300, professional headwork with valves and springs has to be $600-$800.
Chip $270.
That's the cost of twisted wedge heads that can get you in the 325rwhp range out of the box.
And i'd bet you are well short of that.

Remove the limiter, why? You going past 6200rpm on a set of P's, an explorer intake and a b cam with a max rpm range in the 5500's?
There really isn't any safe combo of parts that will go past the limiter on a stock 302 shortblock that does street duty.

I know i have probably offended your parts choices, but honestly if instead of blowing money on the chip and headwork on a set of p's you just bought better heads, you would probably be up 30+ rwhp.

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Do yourself a favor and take his advice: it's the best you have gotten so far.

Far too many people put a dab of this and a dollop of that, and then wonder why the car doesn't run worth beans. Then they think off the shelf computer chips will fix their mismatched parts problem. It won't You have to have a plan for what kind of performance you want: Hot street. Street/Strip, Pure strip, Autocross or Road course. Each one requires a different strategy and a different set of components.. Mismatch the components and you’ll have a car that falls flat on its face when you demand performance.

Everyone thinks HP! HP! HP! and thinks that peak HP is what they need. Peak HP is great for a drag strip car when it has the proper gears and tires to get the car up into the high RPM range where it develops that high peak HP near the finish line. On a street car, that strategy will have Honda Accords outrunning you, because you will never get the engine RPMs high enough without running over everything in your path.

Here’ the strategy: Always remember that there are some tradeoffs in any engine combination. Most of us don’t have enough money to “have it all” as if it was possible by some masterful combination of parts and tuning.

The following recommendations are for 5 Speed Manual transmission cars without NO2 or pressurized induction, stock short block.

1.) Hot street: Broad flat torque curve, high velocity airflow in the intake and heads for best throttle response. Gears suitable for reasonable gas mileage and long road trips without excessive engine RPMs. Stand on the gas pedal from a rolling start to squeeze into that gap in traffic in front of you, and it jumps quick and hard to get you there. Max RPM’s are 5200-5500 RPM for best power. Lopey cams may sound cool, but run poorly in a low RPM street environment.
Use stock cam, stock, GT40 or mildly ported stock heads, Cobra or Explorer/GT40 intake, advanced timing, stock 19 lb injectors, stock fuel pump. Use some good 1.6 or 1.7 ratio roller rockers for extra punch. Use a King Cobra clutch, with stock iron or steel billet flywheel. MAF cars can use a 65 MM TB from the Explorer intake manifold and a 70MM MAF from a 94-95 Mustang. Drive train: 3:55 gears with soft tread compound tires. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, stock 2 1/4” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. The stock computer will handle all this with no problems and doesn’t need any help in 90% of the cases. No skinny or grossly undersize tires for the front: remember you still have to stop quickly in traffic. Make sure all the rubber bushings in the front and rear suspensions are in first class shape. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Street/strip: A little more slope to the torque curve with a gently sloping peak. Use slightly larger port volumes on intake and heads for more peak HP. Uses 3.55 or 3.73 gears to get the RPM’s up into a higher range quicker. Be prepared to sacrifice some low RPM throttle response in exchange for high RPM power. This by necessity will be a Mass Air or Mass Air conversion, since stock speed density will not run well with the changes in engine airflow. Don’t get too crazy on any one engine part since you still have to drive the car on the street, and a mismatch can make street driving miserable.
Use stock or mild aftermarket cam, Ported GT 40, or 165-180 CC port volume aftermarket aluminum heads. Use a Trick Flow, Edelbrock Performer or equal intake manifold. Take a 73 MM aftermarket MAF calibrated for 24 lb injectors, and 24 lb injectors, 155 LPH fuel pump, Kirban adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Be prepared to shell out some $$$ for a custom burned chip using data gathered from a dyno run. Mass market chips will not get the job done. Use some Ford Racing unequal length headers, aftermarket 2 1/2” cat pipe and some mufflers that don’t drone or get too much attention from the law enforcement or neighbors. Drivetrain: expect the stock T5 to fail, so save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Carry spare tires and wheels for the drag strip: skinnys for the front and drag radials for the rear. No skinnys for street driving! Over 85% of the breaking power is generated by the front tires, so skinnys won’t do the job in a panic stop situation. Disconnect the front anti-roll bar at the strip; reconnect it before you drive home. Leave the emissions equipment intact and working. Removing or disabling it won’t get you any more HP or performance. Do not convert to carb or remove A/C: either one will reduce the resale value. Carb conversions cannot be titled for street use or get tags in some places. They definitely won’t pass smog inspections.

Strip only: High RPM, High flow heads (185-215 CC port volume), wild cam, high flow intake manifold, 70 MM or larger TB, 80 MM or lager MAF, strip everything out of the car that doesn’t make it go faster. Carbs are OK if that’s what you want, but remember that as the temp/humidity/ barometric pressure/altitude changes, you have to re-jet and readjust the carb. EFI eliminates most of that with its built in compensation or you can tune of the fly with a high end Motes or Tweecer system combined with a wide band air/fuel ratio meter. Use custom headers, dumps and minimal mufflers. How fast you can go on 5 liters is a function of the skill level of the driver/mechanic and the size of your wallet.

TRAILER the car to the race track since it won’t be legal to drive it on the street. Drag slicks in the rear, skinnys up front, use 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) in the rear axle. Since you won’t be driving on long trips, the big gears with work with the high RPM power curve to get the best results. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices. Different gears in a stock T5 case work for some, but there is only so much power you can pass through a T5 in race mode before it breaks, even with stronger gears. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Remove the front sway bar, put an airbag in the rear spring of the side that spins the tire the most. Plan on a roll cage if you are truly serious about going fast: most strips will require it once you get to a certain ET range.

Autocross is a combination of Hot street engine and street strip chassis prep. The engine must accelerate quickly from low RPM and needs a broad, flat torque curve. Next are the Chassis mods: full length subframe connectors, different springs, different shocks, aftermarket lower and upper control arms with rubber or urethane bushings. Buy all the parts from someplace like Maximum Motorsports, Griggs or Steeda as a kit so that you know that all the parts fit and don’t argue with each other. Most of the time you’ll never hit third gear, so some 3.73 or bigger gears (4.xx) may help a lot. You’ll have to spend some more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. A 87-88 T Bird Turbo Coupe or SN 95 rear axle will be your best bet. Autocross will severely strain 1st & 2nd gears, so your T5 may take a premature dump. Save your money for a super duty 5 speed trans. Tremec 3550, TKO 500 & TKO 600 are the best choices.

All out road race is the most difficult of all: an engine that will run at high rpm hour after hour and never fail, yet pull hard out of the hairpin turns that will require a lot of torque at lower RPMs. In my opinion, guys that can successfully build a winning road race engine are the cream of the crop. Top this off with a chassis built for strip only duty, but with changes to the settings of springs, tires, roll bars brakes and shocks. It’s a whole other world of racing.
You’ll have to spend lots more money on brakes since it kills brakes quickly. Rear disks, larger rotors up front, stainless steel brake lines, different brake pads. Air ducting to cool the brake rotors will be a must. The brake rotors of cars on a high speed road course glow red after several hard laps of racing. Drivetrain: TKO 500 & TKO 600, and T56 close ratio are the best transmission choices.