Considering doing a 351w swap into my 302, whats needed?

Gael · Nov 16, 2003

I feel that instead of just slowly upgrading my current 302, why not just go with a 351w and get everything done that I want. Really thinking about doing the 393 stroker idea.

I have some nice aftermarket aluminum cylinder heads on their way (hopefully).

Here's the list I have so far.

351w block
351w rods
302 pistons
3.85” crank
Camshaft kit (cam & lifters)
Pushrods
Oil pan
Intake manifold
Headers (351w engine swap from hooker)
Relocate the battery to the trunk (Optima battery in the future?)
Cut some of the fender wells

I've found these sites that give information about it.

http://www.xmission.com/~mstng2/favorite.htm
http://www.mustangii.net/351convert.asp (i know thats v6 to 351w, but still helpful)
http://www.mustangii.net/headerfa.asp (351w swap headers)

Is the hardest thing to do the headers/oil pan?

Thanks again for any input/advice.

parthos · Nov 16, 2003

if I were to go a 351 swap, I seriously would consider a motor plate instead of motor mounts. The reason for this, is then you would have room for headers, and make life easier. check out his car for some ideas http://groups.msn.com/racersofokc/robertszewczyk76mustangii.msnw

AB 92LX · Nov 16, 2003

A good starter before putting motor in. Sucks pulling the motor to change a starter.

98CobraClone · Nov 17, 2003

parthos, whose stang is that? that has got to be one of the baddest II's I have seen in a while

Gael · Nov 17, 2003

98CobraClone said:
parthos, whose stang is that? that has got to be one of the baddest II's I have seen in a while

http://mustangii.net/nov01.asp

The guy's name = Robert Szewczyk. That's all I know though, but yeah, I agree, his II = For the longest time after I saw his, I wanted to make mine just like it.

Wart · Nov 17, 2003

parthos said:
if I were to go a 351 swap, I seriously would consider a motor plate instead of motor mounts. The reason for this, is then you would have room for headers, and make life easier.

When someone asks the 351 question I think more in terms of theory and philosophy and less in terms of specific and actual parts.

I mounted my 302 using factory mounts with the rubber replaced by maple wood blocks and held together with 7/16 fine thread bolts with the face rounded to fit the lower motor mount rivit recess. Using factory rubber thicknesses put the engine paralell in the frame with the transmission mount in factory location. This locates the powerplant centerline ~ 1 1/8 inches right of center.

These were effectivly solid mounts.

With the 351 using II exhaust the mounts placed the manifold 1/8 to 1/4 inches over the frame. Choice was moving the frame or moving the engine. I moved the engine to the center of the car. This put the '67 Toploader linkage through the tunnel. This left me the choice of opening up the tunnle with a sledge or doing sheetmetal work.

If someones going to hammer fit the frame or tunnle they need read no further. You know everything you need.

I reworked the mounts to center and lower the engine and move it to the rear about an inch. Since I have a bridge (subframe) under the car I sliced out part of the tunnle then bent and tack welded some 0.040 or 0.060 metal in as a 'cover'.

I did this as a proof of concept, drove it a bit, learned a few things, then work on her stalled.

I have a Lincoln C4 and AOD to test fit.

I'm going to figure out how to get a bell engine plate mounted in rubber , somehow. A plate would allow the use of rear collector block huggers.

I have also been imagining a tube frame set up for mounting the engine. Think piston aircraft style.

Things like the linkages, hoods and air filter housings, steering linkage, oil pans, these are all things needing worked out with your own personal style. And everything has to be worked around the basic placement of the engine.

For now you need to figure out where and how you want to place the powerplant. Everything flows from this.

Gael · Nov 17, 2003

Ok I have a question about the Hooker 351w Pinto Swap Headers. Here are the notes that come with the headers.

7 This header requires Ford motor mounts #D7ZZ-60038A & B and Ford transmission mount #C8ZZ-6068A.

8 Installation on manual transmission equipped cars requires a Hooker clutch linkage pivot bracket. Also needed are one stock Pinto clutch cable assembly, one link Ford #S1FZ-2861-AJ, and one adjustable clutch rod Ford #DOT2-7521-C.

27 Two tubes over frame on each side.

44 Will not fit with C-6 transmission.

49 Will fit Dart/Windsor head.

Are these all true? Do I need all those parts?

COBRAIIW · Nov 17, 2003

I am running a 351W now.the hardest part was refab the oil pan.the engine is stock,and the air cleaner is a ford motorsport 13in open element.it just clears the hood.I haven't tried headers yet,I'm still running the original factory exhaust from a 302.The engine is sitting in a little misaligned.
My plan is to put in a 5.0 HO,so for right now it doesn't matter to me.
The the 351W will get the full treatment before I put it back in!

By the way,you don't pull the engine to change the starter.you pull the rack&pinion.

AB 92LX · Nov 17, 2003

COBRAIIW said:
By the way,you don't pull the engine to change the starter.you pull the rack&pinion.

Wish I had known that about 5 years ago. I did not see any other way. I pulled the motor halfway out to change the starter. At least I don't have to worry about it anymore (was an ex GF car). I should have bought it when she got rid of it, but I did not see the need for 2 Mustang IIs along with all my other cars at the time. Her dad ended up giving it to a boy for an oil change in their dodge.

strangeice69 · Nov 17, 2003

i pull off my front 2 header tubes

a351Must2 · Nov 18, 2003

Gael, be prepared for a few difficulties...the Hooker headers fit great with an automatic and manual brakes. I spent a siginificant amount of extra money on mine having a custom exhaust shop chop up the headers and make them clear the power brakes, clutch cable on the SROD bellhousing, and the front suspension...as well as centering the collectors on the crossmember and replacing the slip joints with flanges. I think they'd fit a lot better if the engine was centered, but they still wouldn't clear the brake master cylinder. I've also heard they don't fit well with an A/C compressor.

The proper front sump 351W oil pan clears a manual rack fine, but gets too close to the power steering rack. My '78 has manual steering and the big Milodon pan with plenty of clearance, but my '76 has power steering and a normal front sump 351W pan and a piece of paper would be lucky to slip between the rack and the pan.

I've never tried a 351W with a II transmission, but I know the 351W pan will prevent the starter from being installed if you use a II tranmission...not a problem if you use a full size bellhousing.

Hood clearance is only a problem if you go with an aftermarket intake and 4bbl. The stock 351W 2bbl intake + EGR spacer + 2bbl carb & II air cleaner will fit under the hood.

Gael · Nov 19, 2003

Do you think it'd be more worth my while to just try to have a set of custom headers made, instead of buying a set of headers, and then having them modified?

My car has both power steering and power brakes, no A/C. I already have a hole cut out of my hood for the hood scoop, with my 302 right now it fits fine with a Torker II intake, and Holley Street Avenger carburetor. The air cleaner is an Edelbrock Pro-Flo or something like that.

As for the oil pan, can't I just modify my current pan by making it a little bit larger at the areas that need it, and then re-weld it?

I plan on doing this with a Rad4 bellhousing, and then the T5 and such. I had issues with the starter last time, I think we ended up pulling a motor mount or something, hehe.

I'm sure people have done a T5 swap with a 351w in a II as well. However, which bellhousings were used? My T5 has a bellhousing with it, but it's a SN95 5.0 bellhousing.

1badII · Nov 19, 2003

I'm going to be going with custom headers when I do my swap. You're going to be staying with the T5? I told you you should have gone with the GForce!

parthos · Nov 19, 2003

the 302 oil pan will not work at all, sorry but you'll need a 351 pan. Several people are using aftermarket pans, perhaps they know the part numbers for them

Wart · Nov 19, 2003

Gael said:
I'm sure people have done a T5 swap with a 351w in a II as well. However, which bellhousings were used? My T5 has a bellhousing with it, but it's a SN95 5.0 bellhousing.

I'm of the belief that when doing these types of modifications you should stick with entire assemblies and avoiding custom machine pieces.

Putting something inside a bellhousing that isn't a factory part could strand the car in Podunkville. I would stick with 'off the shelf' items.

Gael · Nov 19, 2003

1badII, for the price that the GForce kit costs, I'll risk it. I plan to rebuild it though, just not sure when. It's not like I'm going to be beating my car to death after the engine rebuild anyway, I need to let it break in well.

parthos, any idea if that's with power steering? cause like a351mustii was saying, the pans work fine with the manual racks, but power racks are not as easy.

and wart, you bring up a good point, i didn't consider that. i wonder though, what would be involved if i decided to keep the same bellhousing? Also, would it be better to use a fox bellhousing, or would that end up turning into the same thing as using the t5 in a rad4 bellhousing?

Wart · Nov 19, 2003

Gael said:
and wart, you bring up a good point, i didn't consider that. i wonder though, what would be involved if i decided to keep the same bellhousing? Also, would it be better to use a fox bellhousing, or would that end up turning into the same thing as using the t5 in a rad4 bellhousing?

Let's say I'm installing a T5, I would have the T5 flywheel rebalanced and use factory or factory replacement parts from the engine spacer plate to the tail shaft.

Like I said before everything else would have to work around it.

parthos · Nov 19, 2003

I dunno about the steering rack, I have a power one, that currently has no power, it leaked so now it has armstrong steering. I think the power rack may be bigger, someone who has both could perhaps take some measurements.

77sleeper · Nov 19, 2003

digging deep.................

Gael · Nov 22, 2003

a351Must2 said:
Gael, be prepared for a few difficulties...the Hooker headers fit great with an automatic and manual brakes. I spent a siginificant amount of extra money on mine having a custom exhaust shop chop up the headers and make them clear the power brakes, clutch cable on the SROD bellhousing, and the front suspension...as well as centering the collectors on the crossmember and replacing the slip joints with flanges. I think they'd fit a lot better if the engine was centered, but they still wouldn't clear the brake master cylinder. I've also heard they don't fit well with an A/C compressor.

If I may ask, how much did it cost to do that?

Considering doing a 351w swap into my 302, whats needed?

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