Cooling System Questions

El_Stition · Oct 29, 2005

I've got an '85 gt (carbed) and am having some cooling issues. Is the difference between an aftermarket and the stock radiator really noticable? Are most double row radiators effectively equal? What's the best way to keep the engine cool?
I replaced my thermostat and flushed the cooling system. There were white deposits in the thermostat casing, I'm wondering what they were. They disappeared after I flushed it. I can't seem to think of any causes.
After I flushed the cooling system and replaced the thermostat the temp guage stopped working. I'm a little confused how that could have happened. I replaced the stock thermostat with a 160 degree one if that could influence it at all. Any ideas?
I'm also wondering what good a thermostat does, or it's general point. It seems like it'd be more efficienct to have the water pump constantly circulating water throughout the engine. I must be missing alot here.
Also, my cars in Ohio and I estimate it'll take about 600$ to drive it to Washington, are there any alternative ways to transport it under 1000$? I'd rather ship it somehow than drive if possible. Driving it to Ohio was one of the least pleasant experiences I've had. I managed to crash twice (thanks to icy roads and poor driving skills) and break my heater for the entire duration.

BlownFiveLiter · Oct 29, 2005

There is a big difference between a stock radiatior and a double row. The double row effectively doubles the surface area, since the antifreeze has to pass through two rows, instead of one. The white residue you saw is probably the result of electrolysis, because your thermostat is made of a dissimilar metal than the intake itself, so they have a reaction to one another over time.
The thermostat helps to regulate the engine temperature, to bring it to peak operating temperature. Without it, your engine stays too cool, and uses more fuel as well. I'm honestly at a loss about the temp gauge stopping, just have to guess that something happened with the sensor as a result of flushing the system?

TheUser · Oct 30, 2005

StangGT: I'm relatively positive (the 87-93's I know for a fact) that the stock radiator is a 2-core (double row). There are "Heavy duty" models available, which are 3-core.

And yes, the thermostat helps the engine warm up to operating temperature. Without a thermostat, the vehicle would never get very hot and your heater would be virtually useless in the winter; you may experience those problems with your 160* thermostat as well. Additionally, although it doesn't apply to you, the newer cars with sensors need to be warmed up to kick the computer into open loop and use the sensors effectively.

As for shipping the vehicle, yes, there are shipping services that will likely do it for $900-1000. I would suggest not going the cheap route if you want or need the car within a month. I had my GT shipped from Farmington, New Mexico to Springfield, Missouri a in 2003. It took 6 weeks to arrive and was a total headache/nightmare for me. I think I paid $800 or so - pay the few extra hundred and have peace of mind. You can search google for automobile transportation services and should find some results.

Killer50stang · Oct 30, 2005

Are you running a stock gauge...they suck! What fan system are you running? Air/fuel ratio? Timing...could be many different things, but I need more info. to determine your problem. Does it get warm at idle? or stop and go?

Mattsmustang · Oct 30, 2005

i would recommend a 180 degree thermostat, and a electric fan. Do you have underdrive pulleys, that definetly do it.

NO running an open cooling system (no thermostat) would not help. it may actually make the problem worse, because the coolent has to stay in the engine long enough to absorb the heat and if you constantly push it though its effiency will suffer.

Is it a stock carb or performance carb, running lean will cause an engine to run hot, fuel is coolent of sorts.

Kerpal · Oct 30, 2005

A 180* or 195* t-stat would probably be a better chioce this time of year. A good aftermarket radiator is a big improvement over the stock one... my temp now reads 1/3 up on the factory gauge at all times, vs. 1/2 up with the stock rad during normal driving and 2/3 up when driving hard. I went with a Griffin. I've some pretty heavily modded cars still running a stock radiator, but if you need a new one, might as well upgrade.

Black1987Stang · Oct 30, 2005

To ship my stang from Toms River, New Jersey all the way down to Nashville Tennessee it was about $650 and took less than a week (about 5 days) but really depends on the driver, how big his truck is, how many stops he has, where they are etc. My guy had his own mini 3 car flatbed deal so he only had max of 3 stops. Yes you can spend that money somewhere else but i would not rather risk something on my car, or like breaking down halfway and having no way to fix it, or even being in an accident. Just make sure ur company has insurance on ur car and has a good review from other people.

HISSIN50 · Oct 30, 2005

Yep, good replies here. If you want help making a diagnosis upon what components to swap, post about what the issues are and when. Like if you run cool at speed and idling for a short time, the radiator is probably fine.

The Mr Gasket t-stats are very nice if you ask me (I run nothing but those).

You do use distilled water in the cooling system, right?

The water pump does constantly distribute water through the engine (the heads get hotter than the bottom end). But if the motor is already too cold, you would not want the radiator further cooling the coolant.

Good luck.

Killer50stang · Oct 30, 2005

HISSIN50 said:
Yep, good replies here. If you want help making a diagnosis upon what components to swap, post about what the issues are and when. Like if you run cool at speed and idling for a short time, the radiator is probably fine.

The Mr Gasket t-stats are very nice if you ask me (I run nothing but those).

You do use distilled water in the cooling system, right?

The water pump does constantly distribute water through the engine (the heads get hotter than the bottom end). But if the motor is already too cold, you would not want the radiator further cooling the coolant.

Good luck.

Agreed! I run a 160 thermo and it's fine. Don't listen to that bull. The radiator is fine I'd say, unless it's leaking. You're probably most likely is probably your fan if it heats up at a stop and go. Otherwise, change the gauge to an aftermarket gauge...autometer, whatever and go from there.

vristang · Oct 30, 2005

El_Stition: It's good to hear we have another Stang moving to Washington!

Unless your motor has boost, there is no need to run a 160F stat, but even then it is not the best solution for the performance/longevity of the motor. In my opinion, many people run a 160F stat to compensate for a weak or poorly designed cooling system, or simply run the cooling system too cold.

I have read in several texts and several SAE published papers that running at a coolant temp of 190F or less will decrease engine power output, decrease fuel economy, and significantly decrease engine life through excessive wear, as well as affect exhaust emissions. The ideal temps I have seen, seem to be between 195-210F for coolant, and 210-225F for engine oil. I have yet to read of a benefit to running below 190F.

This does not change between carb'd and efi setups. The only difference between the 2, is the enrichment of the a/f during warmup in efi. An efi computer will decide the engine is "warm" based upon coolant temp. If the T-stat is too low the computer will never see the "warm" temp.

As mentioned previously, a better description of the cooling system is needed for trouble shooting. What hard parts are being used, and how does the temp vary with operating conditions?

Good luck with the move,
jason

TheUser · Oct 30, 2005

Killer50stang said:
Agreed! I run a 160 thermo and it's fine. Don't listen to that bull.

Sounds like HISSIN is against the idea of running an open cooling system (no thermostat) or a 160* since he said you wouldn't want the radiator cooling it further - it wouldn't get out if the thermostat were closed and a higher temp keeps it closed longer.

Either way, run what you want in your car, sounds like it's a beast. Just making an observation.

Killer50stang · Oct 30, 2005

TheUser said:
Sounds like HISSIN is against the idea of running an open cooling system (no thermostat) or a 160* since he said you wouldn't want the radiator cooling it further - it wouldn't get out if the thermostat were closed and a higher temp keeps it closed longer.

Either way, run what you want in your car, sounds like it's a beast. Just making an observation.

Sorry man, I wasn't flaming, I'm just sick of hearing the thermo is the problem when it's been replaced. By the way, it's a beast, but like everyone else on here, it's a never ending process

HISSIN50 · Oct 30, 2005

Yeah, I actually am not at all a fan of 160's or no stat. I would at least run a restrictor plate if running no stat. Here in the desert people do weird stuff. Often times with no stat, the car runs very cool but then will heat up and keep heating up till it eventually overheats.

After 30-120 seconds, the HEGO's will light off no matter what you are doing (if your exhaust gets hot, they light off - independent of coolant temps). But from the datalog info I have seen, one needs to have the ECT see about 178*F for the puter to go into full hot strategy.

The irony is that when running just under this threshold, the puter can lean the mixture out, since it knows that your motor is warm for all intents and purposes, and can take it. But the leanness will cause it to heat up a hair more so it can get into full hot strategy.

Killer50, I know that a bit of this does not apply to you (I know a LOT of carbed guys who run 160* stats).

I have two thoughts on this stuff.

1) The operating temps need to be looked at, not just the stat rating. Some guys with 160* stats barely can keep it under 220*F. And some guys with 195* stats run at 197 all day long. The system as a whole needs to be evaluated.

2) if someone needs a 160 stat on an EFI car, there is probably room for improvement elsewhere.

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