Could a bad tfi module and map sensor cause detonation
- Thread starter Billy88LX
- Start date
The MAP sensor is critical on a SD car. I'd like to see what it's reading, but otherwise, check the vac line to it, the wiring to it, and replace if necessary (Jrichker has some good MAP/BAP testing info IIRC).
The PIP is something to address sooner than later (it is responsible for base spark and injector timing). The sensor is cheap and the R/R can be a real pain.
Good luck.
The PIP is something to address sooner than later (it is responsible for base spark and injector timing). The sensor is cheap and the R/R can be a real pain.
Good luck.
Code 14 - Ignition pickup (PIP) was erratic – the hall effect sensor in the distributor is failing. Bad sensor, bad wiring, dirty contacts. You have to press the distributor gear off the shaft to replace the sensor. The pip signal is used for ignition timing and fuel injector timing.
Code 22 MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range. The MAP or BARO sensor is pretty much the same sensor for both Mass Air & Speed Density cars. The main difference is where it is connected. Mass Air cars vent it to the atmosphere, while Speed Density cars connect it to the intake manifold vacuum. Its purpose is to help set a baseline for the air/fuel mixture by sensing changes in barometric pressure. The MAP or BAP sensor puts out a 5 volt square wave that changes frequency with variations in atmospheric pressure. The base is 154 HZ at 29.92" of mercury - dry sunny day at sea level, about 68-72 degrees. You need an oscilloscope or frequency meter to measure it. There is no way you can use a common cheap voltmeter or DVM to accurately measure the output signal.
The MAP/BARO sensor is mounted on the firewall behind the upper manifold.
Baro or MAP test using frequency meter - run the test key on engine off. The noise from the ignition system will likely upset the frequency meter. I used a 10 x oscilloscope probe connected from the frequency meter to the MAP/BAP to reduce the jitter in the meter's readout.
If it is defective, your air/fuel ratio will be off and the car’s performance & emissions will suffer
Some basic checks you can make to be sure that the sensor is getting power & ground:
Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.
Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery cable. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.
The following power on check requires you to turn the ignition switch to the Run position.
Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or EGR sensors. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.
Code 22 MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range. The MAP or BARO sensor is pretty much the same sensor for both Mass Air & Speed Density cars. The main difference is where it is connected. Mass Air cars vent it to the atmosphere, while Speed Density cars connect it to the intake manifold vacuum. Its purpose is to help set a baseline for the air/fuel mixture by sensing changes in barometric pressure. The MAP or BAP sensor puts out a 5 volt square wave that changes frequency with variations in atmospheric pressure. The base is 154 HZ at 29.92" of mercury - dry sunny day at sea level, about 68-72 degrees. You need an oscilloscope or frequency meter to measure it. There is no way you can use a common cheap voltmeter or DVM to accurately measure the output signal.
The MAP/BARO sensor is mounted on the firewall behind the upper manifold.
Baro or MAP test using frequency meter - run the test key on engine off. The noise from the ignition system will likely upset the frequency meter. I used a 10 x oscilloscope probe connected from the frequency meter to the MAP/BAP to reduce the jitter in the meter's readout.
If it is defective, your air/fuel ratio will be off and the car’s performance & emissions will suffer
Some basic checks you can make to be sure that the sensor is getting power & ground:
Note that all resistance tests must be done with power off. Measuring resistance with a circuit powered on will give false readings and possibly damage the meter.
Check the resistance between the black/white wire on the MAP/BARO sensor and then the black/white wire on the EGR and the same wire on the TPS. It should be less than 1 ohm. Next check the resistance between the black/white wire and the negative battery cable. It should be less than 1.5 ohm.
The following power on check requires you to turn the ignition switch to the Run position.
Use a DVM to check for 5 volts on the orange/white wire. If it is missing, look for +5 volts at the orange/white wire on the TPS or EGR sensors. Use the black/white wire for the ground for the DVM.
The car is running in limp mode anytime code 14 or 22 is set. Limp mode means reduced performance.
The MAP or Baro sensor sets a baseline air/fuel ratio. If it is off, the engine could run lean. When a MAP sensor is used in a mass air car, the sensor is vented to open air. It does not get connected to manifold vacuum.
A bad TFI could cause code 14, but it would be very rare. You would need an oscilloscope or some high end anaylzer equipment to examine the actual pip signal output.
I have the map sensor vented to the open. I changed out the tfi and the map so i will pull the codes again to see if they show up again. How hard is the pip to chage out? thanks
Changing the pip requires removal of the distributor and them pressing the drive gear off the distributor shaft. The shaft mounts the shutterwheel that triggers the pip sensor. Then once the gear is off the shaft, you can slide the shaft/shutterwheel assembly out and replace the sensor. You get to press the gear back on, pin it and reinstall the distributor. It may be helpful the heat the gear in the oven to make it easier to install.
Some guys find it easier to pay the $75 or so for a rebuilt distributor.
Here's some help for removing the distributor and reinstalling it...
Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.
The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.
Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing. If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that if it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light and start the engine. Set the timing where your car runs best. Don't forget to disconnect the SPOUT jumper connector when you set the timing, and plug it back in when you finish.
Some guys find it easier to pay the $75 or so for a rebuilt distributor.
Here's some help for removing the distributor and reinstalling it...
Putting the distributor back in is fairly simple. Pull #1 sparkplug, put your finger in the sparkplug hole, crank the engine until you feel compression. Then line up the TDC mark on the balancer with the pointer on the engine block.
The distributor starts out with the #1 plug wire lined up at about 12:00 with you facing it. Align the rotor to about 11:00, since it will turn clockwise as it slides into place.
Align the distributor rotor up with the #1 position marked on the cap, slide the distributor down into the block, (you may have to wiggle the rotor slightly to get the gear to engage) and then note where the rotor is pointing. If it still lines up with #1 position on the cap, install the clamp and bolt. If not, pull it out and turn 1 tooth forwards or backwards and try again. Put the #1 spark plug back in and tighten it down, put the clamp on the distributor, but don't tighten it too much, as you will have to move the distributor to set the timing. Note that if it doesn't align perfectly with #1 position, you can turn the distributor until it does. The only problem is that if you are too far one way or the other, you can't turn the distributor enough to get the 10-14 degree optimum timing range.
At this point hook up all the wires, get out the timing light and start the engine. Set the timing where your car runs best. Don't forget to disconnect the SPOUT jumper connector when you set the timing, and plug it back in when you finish.
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