Could too much timing cause a car to run hot?

[DaveB]

Well my car has a problem with running hot. This problem originated about a year ago when I swapped on some BBK LTs, a Dr. Gas offroad x-pipe, some new plugs and wires, and an ASP smog pump eliminator kit. Before these mods the car ran fine temp wise (yes I have pullies but had had them on the car for a year before this stuff had been put on), but as soon as I started to drive the car with the new stuff, it would run really hot, like even hitting the A and L on the gauge while on the highway. Now I posted about this several weeks ago and another member suggested that I swap the plugs I had for ones that were one heat range colder. I had Autolite 25s and went to 24s. This helped the problem, it made it take longer to heat up, but engine still gets to the A on the gauge.

Now I had the timing increased to 14* probably 6 months before I had swapped all that other stuff on, so the car still had the original plugs and wires on it. Could this be too much timing? Should I try bringing the timing down a couple of degrees? The engine wont ping until the temp gauge is way up there. Its hard to hear with my exhaust but I can hear it.

The engine will only get hot when it is under a load, so if it sits there and idles, the temp needle will stay around the O or so.

If anyone has any other ideas please chime in. I do plan on getting a Fluidyne and a Stewart waterpump so hopefully that will get rid of the problem totally if the timing thing doesnt work.

 

[ShiftTheDrift]

First of all, IMO, 14* is a little high for lightly modded engine. Secondly, with that much timing, I hope you run a higher level of octane than regular to avoid detonation. If not, I can certainly see cause for pinging at higher engine temperatures with that much advanced. My advice, back your timing down to 10* stock and work your way up from there and start running a higher level of oct. Good luck!

 

[DaveB]

Ya I run 93 octane only. But the pinging isnt the problem, the engine temp is. Could the timing cause the car to run hot?

 

[Rootus]

Advancing the timing will tend to make it run a little leaner, which in turn means a little hotter. But honestly I don't think it's something you'd notice. My engine is modified quite a bit, and makes a bunch more heat than stock, and yet the water temperature is still rock steady at 180* most times. I'd check your cooling system and fan for correct operation.

Dave

 

[JJ95GTID]

I run 14* and 91 octane fuel. What I did for getting rid of pinging and get the temp down (and stay down!) was this: 2 bottles of Red Line Water Wetter with a 50/50 mix coolant and water, 180* thermostat, new IAT and ECT sensors. Before all this in hot weather with A/C on and timing @ 10* using 87 octane my car would get up to 'M' in the 'NORMAL' and ping under load around 4300rpm. Now it rarely gets past 'R' and doesn't ping.

 

[DaveB]

I dont think its the cooling system. Reason is, before those mods (and I even added a bottle of Water Wetter!) the car ran fine temp wise. But as soon as those mods were done, temps were sky high. Should I try fiddling with my fuel pressure or going for an even colder plug?

 

[True Blue 66]

what mods did you do and what tstat are you runing ????

 

[Rootus]

I just don't see the mixture being able to change your running temperature by as much as you are experiencing. If it were, I would expect you to have other more ominous symptoms. It would at least ping like a bastard if it was running too lean. If I were you, I would get a real guage and hook it up to see exactly what temperature your low speed fan comes on at, when it goes to high speed, and what your normal operating temperature is. Judging it by the letter on the stock guage is not at all accurate.

Dave

 

[DaveB]

The total mods I did were:

-BBK Cermamic Coated LT headers
-Felpro gaskets
-Dr. Gas offroad x-pipe
-ASP smog pump eliminator kit
-Taylor sparkplug wires
-MSD cap and rotor
-1 bottle of Redline Water Wetter
-Autolite 25 sparkplugs (since changed for 24s)

The car ran great (and still does) when its in the normal temp range (around the R or so on the gauge, you can feel the power go down as the gauge goes up).

My car will ping, but only when the temp gauge is on the A or above. I've watched my fans turn on, so I know they work. And I know the gauge is accurate. When I brought it to my mechanic he took one of those infared temp guns and pointed it at the thermostat housing. It was between 220 and 230 degrees with the gauge on the letter A. Also, I have a stock replacement. But the factory original had been in there and not caused me any problems before this all happened.

 

[SuperStang83]

What thermostat do you have in the car?

 

[Rootus]

I guess I have no other ideas for you, then, you seem pretty set on finding a tuning issue responsible for your cooling issues. You have a very mild engine combo, I cannot see how it would affect cooling. There are many of us with a lot wilder setups that don't have the kind of cooling problem you are apparently having.

I wish you luck,

Dave

 

[Black70Fastback]

stock gauges are consistant, its just the fact that they dont have numbers so how hot is "a"

according to the heat gun "a" is about 225 degrees.

how much above that does it go? are you losing water? getting water in the oil. oil in the water. just plain losing water at all?

 

[DaveB]

No water loss that I have noticed. Nothing in the oil either .

 

[87GTPrimer]

Those mods you did are making your motor run leaner. Even though its exhaust, the pulse from those headers is pulling the exhaust out faster, and creating more of a vacuum in the cylinder when the intake opens, and its drawing in more air and running lean. Try getting an adjustable fuel pressure regullator and take it to a shop or get an A/F meter/gauge and do some tuning.

 

[DaveB]

I do have an AFPR, whats a good PSI to set it to? I might have the car dynoed after I get a Performer intake to see where the A/F is at.

 

[RydeOn]

My car would run hot when the timing was too far advanced. But I heard the pinging. Even with offroads, I heard that sob knocking. I backed it off and the temp stayed more level at WOT. Granted I am running forced induction, but a motor is a motor. You dont just go and set timing at 14* because every1 says so. Your supposed to start off at factory timming, 10*, then advance it 1 degree at a time. Youll start picking up power and when there is no more power increase, back off to the degree where you were at. Oh yea and go back to the stock plugs.

 

[revhead347]

The total mods I did were:

-BBK Cermamic Coated LT headers
-Felpro gaskets
-Dr. Gas offroad x-pipe
-ASP smog pump eliminator kit
-Taylor sparkplug wires
-MSD cap and rotor
-1 bottle of Redline Water Wetter
-Autolite 25 sparkplugs (since changed for 24s)

I don't think Felpro gaskets count as a mod. Mustangs work really well with 16 degrees of timing stock. Your probelm more likely came from the underdriven water pump.

Kurt

 

[Rootus]

Those mods you did are making your motor run leaner. Even though its exhaust, the pulse from those headers is pulling the exhaust out faster, and creating more of a vacuum in the cylinder when the intake opens, and its drawing in more air and running lean.

EEC Operation 101 ..... F

 

[DaveB]

Well FWIW I never had any problems with pinging with the 14* before the headers and whatnot. To be honest after I took the car for a drive I could feel a big differnece, especially right after you shift. As for a the gaskets, hey I was just putting everything I installed . But I guess Ill have my timing lowered a couple of degrees and see if that helps.

As for the pullies, wouldnt that problem have shown up before I did those mods? I never had a problem at all in regards to the pullies for them.

 

[Black70Fastback]

Those mods you did are making your motor run leaner. Even though its exhaust, the pulse from those headers is pulling the exhaust out faster, and creating more of a vacuum in the cylinder when the intake opens, and its drawing in more air and running lean. Try getting an adjustable fuel pressure regullator and take it to a shop or get an A/F meter/gauge and do some tuning.

well thats great. weve established the exhaust pulse. thats what adds power but, if there is more air coming in the intake valve wouldnt there be more air coming in the MAF so it would also give it more fuel?

what is your regulator set at? you have a gauge? even this should be compensated by the computer unless its way off and except for WOT. the computer can go plus or minus 10 percent (i think 10) based on the o2 readings but WOT is set from the regulator. im pretty sure thats the setup.