I'm currently Camshaft shopping for my 408ci 351w build and I am considering a custom camshaft from Flowtech Induction. Has anyone dealt with them before? I've been dealing with Ed specifically. What is everyone's opinion on a custom camshaft vs. a factory cam such as Comp Cams. I'm planning on going with a mechanical roller cam with a lopey idle and good street/autocross power. If a custom camshaft can be dialed in to everything from my intake and compression to the rear gear ratio, I would assume it would be much better, right?
Custom Camshaft
- Thread starter Gailahan
- Start date
the best way to go is a custom grind, but that can be expensive. an off the shelf cam can get you very close to what you want as long as you choose wisely. for your application you want a cam that makes good power in the 1500-6000 rpm range since you want a street/autocross package. for what you want look at cams like the extreme energy series from comp cams, or something similar from crane or crower, sig erson, clay smith, etc. any of these grinders, include iskanderian as well, have cams that will do just what you want. clay smith has the added advantage of custom grinding cams at a lower price, and with quicker delivery than the others. now since you want a lopey idle, look at cams that work in the listed rpm range that has a 108 degree lobe center angle vs a 110 lobe center angle. understand that you will give up a bit of low rpm power for mid range power though, but with the 408 you will likely never notice it.
I guess I should go into more detail about my particular component selection for my engine package:
351w Stroker 408ci
~9.5:1 compression
AFR 205cc Heads
Edelbrock Victor Jr Intake Manifold
Not sure on carb yet, but perhaps Edelbrock 750cfm-- is this undercarbed?
Mechanical Roller Cam
1.6 Roller Rockers
I'm also running 3.50 rear gears.
351w Stroker 408ci
~9.5:1 compression
AFR 205cc Heads
Edelbrock Victor Jr Intake Manifold
Not sure on carb yet, but perhaps Edelbrock 750cfm-- is this undercarbed?
Mechanical Roller Cam
1.6 Roller Rockers
I'm also running 3.50 rear gears.
You can't go wrong with a custom cam from FTI. Ed knows his stuff. A solid roller in that built 408 will be one heck of a runner!
Most engine builders will tell you to get a Holley or Demon carb for most adjustability and power. If you do get a cam from Ed, ask him which size and style carb to go with. I would say a 750HP or Demon at minimum.
You have a nice selection of parts so far. What car is this going in? What trans?
Most engine builders will tell you to get a Holley or Demon carb for most adjustability and power. If you do get a cam from Ed, ask him which size and style carb to go with. I would say a 750HP or Demon at minimum.
You have a nice selection of parts so far. What car is this going in? What trans?
408 stroker, go with an 850 carb for best results. remember you have to feed that monster. the edelbrock has greater tunability than either the holley or demon, but all three would be excellent carb choices. by the way, vacuum secondaries, unless you go drag racing, then step down to a 700-750 double pumper.
Besides the great choice on the engine, you have chosen a great trans and rear end too.
All that in a lightweignt '65 Coupe will be a blast!
An 850 will probably be the best to feed that beast. Joe of Joe Sherman racing routinely dynos engines. On built 347's he uses a 750 and says it consistently beats smaller carbs by about 10 hp. It looks like traction is going to be your biggest problem
All that in a lightweignt '65 Coupe will be a blast! An 850 will probably be the best to feed that beast. Joe of Joe Sherman racing routinely dynos engines. On built 347's he uses a 750 and says it consistently beats smaller carbs by about 10 hp. It looks like traction is going to be your biggest problem
S-Car-Go
Member
Your cam grinder should help you set up the whole motor. Fuel pump, ignition curve, carb, injectors, gears, line size whatever is going to effect your goal, they will want a say. They want you to spread the word of their success and don't want you to goof it up by using a dinky fuel filter or something. The additional cost of a custom cam is worth it's price just from the knowledge learned from these guys.
Ed Curtis, Jay Allen, Buddy Rawls all have excellent reputations and happy customers to back them up. Cam Reseach should prolly go in there too. I like the fact they can break in your flat tappet cam for you before you install it.
On the down side I called Comp cams help line yesterday for a friends project and had a cam recommended. I asked the tech what the vehical weight was because he never asked me about it and he replied he didn't know.. He only knew it was carb'd and an auto. Not weight, tire diameter, gearing, and he was ready to tell me what cam to use. I wasn't impressed.
Ed Curtis, Jay Allen, Buddy Rawls all have excellent reputations and happy customers to back them up. Cam Reseach should prolly go in there too. I like the fact they can break in your flat tappet cam for you before you install it.
On the down side I called Comp cams help line yesterday for a friends project and had a cam recommended. I asked the tech what the vehical weight was because he never asked me about it and he replied he didn't know.. He only knew it was carb'd and an auto. Not weight, tire diameter, gearing, and he was ready to tell me what cam to use. I wasn't impressed.
boss_302
Member
Hello do you have any contact info or website url for these guys above im looking for a custom grind cam for my 428cj with edelbrock heads.thanks javed
69gmachine
Member
First let me say it looks like you have a great combo so far.
Look at the HP graph of Steven Rupps engine in another thread. Although he didn't state all the details (I don't think the numbers took into account an alternator or power steering pump, and it may have been with a flexplate and no torque converter) it made a huge amount of power in a very streetable range. Once installed with typical accessories, it will probably be down 20 - 25 HP at the flywheel/flexplate. If you want 600 HP, then yes, go custom.
Steve used an off the shelf Comp Cam with .555/.576 lift, 236/240 dur. on a 110 LSA. My engine is very similar, also with an off the shelf Comp Cam with .565/.574, 232/240 on a 112 LSA. Although I haven't dyno'd mine yet, it has more power than I can use either on the street or at an open track event.
The Vic Jr. seems to be a great manifold for a 408 with AFR 205s.
As long as you stick with something between 108 and 112 for the LSA, and around .56/.57 on the lift, you're going to make gobs of streetable power. I wouldn't waste the time or $ on a custom grind unless you're going racing. With that much power in that RPM range, I don't think it makes a rat's a$$ what the tire diameter is (although it's almost certainly going to be around 25" for streetable tires on a Mustang), or what the precise weight of your car is (probably in the 3100 to 3300 range) and even if someone did something stupid like leave their 2.80 highway gears in the rear, they could always change them out later. Tell whoever you send your distributor to what the rest of your combo is and they will set it up to work together.
I'd also recommend using 1 3/4" headers.
S-Car-Go
Member
Some people will go to their grave swearing a custom is a waste of money and others will want a custom in their lawnmower. Bottom line is it is an option and should be viewed as such and not an absolute. Depends on "what's good enough" and your knowledge, resources and what your goals are.
My point about comp's help line was that I hung up feeling like a kid at AutoZone was giving me a canned response. My friends project is a truck and can run anything from 25"- 32" tires, is definitley heaverier than a mustang, and can have any operating range based on the usage (4x4, short track, criuser, milage). Comp never had that info yet started making recomedations. I would take advice from a lot of other sources before trusting their help line (software, internet, literature, etc).
Boss_302, Here are those links.
http://www.flowtechinduction.com/index.htm
http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/
http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/index.html
http://www.camresearchcorp.com/
My point about comp's help line was that I hung up feeling like a kid at AutoZone was giving me a canned response. My friends project is a truck and can run anything from 25"- 32" tires, is definitley heaverier than a mustang, and can have any operating range based on the usage (4x4, short track, criuser, milage). Comp never had that info yet started making recomedations. I would take advice from a lot of other sources before trusting their help line (software, internet, literature, etc).
Boss_302, Here are those links.
http://www.flowtechinduction.com/index.htm
http://www.camshaftinnovations.com/
http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/index.html
http://www.camresearchcorp.com/
69gmachine
Member
My mistake for assuming we were talking Mustangs. I know how frustrating it can be to talk to someone at a manufcaturer that doesn't know their product line or their applications. Perhaps I got lucky, but the one time I talked to a technical person at Comp, they were able to solve my problem.
Although I've never delt with any of the grinders you mention, I'm sure that they stay in business by delivering a good product and support. In a race car with rules limiting displacement, compression ratio, etc. a custom grind is a necessity to be competitive. I just think it's difficult to justify spending twice as much for a few extra horsepower in a car that will primarily be street driven.
Gailahan said:
I think the aluminum flywheel is perfect for a 408; definitely do again. It revs like a 302, adding horsepower over the entire curve. I'd probably go with a 2.5" exhaust though. I don't think I've really lost any power, but I doubt I've gained any either. A lot of people are making over 500 HP with a 2.5" exhaust, and the extra clearance would be nice.
I plan to dyno the car this winter on a chassis dyno, mostly to dial in my combination.
I am building a 393 with mostly the same parts as your 408. I just paid for my custom cam from Ed this morning. He is great to deal with and knows his stuff. One advantage with a custom cam is the grinder can play with the profile to help with vacuum. I am running Bear disc brakes on all four cornings and needed some help that a "off the shelf" cam could not give me. You ask Comp Cams about vacuum and they do not know. Spend the extra $$$ and call Ed, you will not be dissapointed. Ed is very busy but for a very good reason. Be patient.
Also, I am buying my carburetor from Jesse at Bigs. Ed and Jesse are friends. Ed will send you the cam specifications. Send this and the camshaft information sheet you filled out for Ed to Jesse. Jesse will tune your carb so it will not need any or very little tuning out of the box. Both are great to work with. Good luck.
Also, I am buying my carburetor from Jesse at Bigs. Ed and Jesse are friends. Ed will send you the cam specifications. Send this and the camshaft information sheet you filled out for Ed to Jesse. Jesse will tune your carb so it will not need any or very little tuning out of the box. Both are great to work with. Good luck.
FTI cam
Ed Curtis is a fantastic cam person. Stick with him and he will get you a cam that is perfect for you application, it is worth the extra few bucks that you will pay.
One piece of advice: be very accurate in your description of how you will use the vehicle, and be realistic on your power goals and usage. If this is primarily a street car err on the side of conservatism. With those heads you won't need a huge cam anyways. Nice combo BTW!
Ed Curtis is a fantastic cam person. Stick with him and he will get you a cam that is perfect for you application, it is worth the extra few bucks that you will pay.
One piece of advice: be very accurate in your description of how you will use the vehicle, and be realistic on your power goals and usage. If this is primarily a street car err on the side of conservatism. With those heads you won't need a huge cam anyways. Nice combo BTW!
I have an Ed Curtis FTI custom cam in my '66 tripower 289 and my '93 "Pure Street" 308. His cams are usually more conservative in their specs then other guys, but they make more power. He doesn't focus on peak numbers, but looks for more "power under the curve" as they say. If you are a racer, this will make your car quicker in the quarter mile, but may not win dyno shootouts. But who races a dyno anyway.
dodgestang
Active Member
I have had several iterations of my 408/410 cleveland stroker in the last 5 years. It always makes the most power with a custom grind from Ed.
