Dart Or Stock?

from6to8 · Feb 1, 2017

Ok, going to build a 351(400) for my 95 and the car will be a weekend street driving car, non track, N/A. Recently replied to some forums on 408s and some and most say why pay for a dart when you can save lots of $$$$$$$$$$ on a stock block. Well I asked my builder that question and this is his answer:

" Wait until you drop money on a stock block only to do that 5 times to learn each block is no good. Then you understand you could have paid for a dart block ".......

So in that theory, sure I would not want to have to hope that I find a good block then it's no good or what have you then have to spend more money and more money until I find one. So enlighten me on the process you guys would take to find the stock block. I guess if you knew someone who had one and knew them pretty well and if it was their block, then you may be more comfortable trusting their word. And I guess you have to factor in also if the block was hit with Nitrous or not also. He ( whomever) could really say and with conviction the block could be good as of the last time they used it and when you put it together it cracks lol. I'm not sure how all of that works, rather there's testing you would do and all that and what's the costs involved, ect. I will not be shooting any block I go with also, FYI.

My components are likely to be :

?? block
3.750 crank to make it around 400 C.I.
custom cam by the builder
Box R intake more than likely
AFR 205 cc heads
Fox TB setup
Anderson powerpipe ( what size recommended for a non track weekend driver street car)????
( I know as for the pipe, the TB needs to be the same or at least 5 mm smaller)???
What would you guys recommend for what I just said I will use the car for?

95 5 spd

hoopty5.0 · Feb 1, 2017

It's not that difficult to find a good block. Stock 351 blocks are good past 700 hp. It's overkill to use aftermarket if you aren't pushing that limit.

TOOLOW91 · Feb 1, 2017

NA ? Street car ?

Stock block and be done .

I have a friend with a stock block 351 turbo car and a power glide that's been 8.50s .

krazedstang · Feb 1, 2017

With the mods you've listed I'd stick to a stock block.

from6to8 · Feb 1, 2017

one mass thanks for all you guy's replies

Yeah I just gotta be able to trust who I'm getting it from so I will see lol

A5literMan · Feb 1, 2017

What they said. The only caveat is if you're looking at roller blocks, you may go through 1-2 before finding a good one. They tend to have a common cracking issue around the cam journal(if there is a crack). People speculate it is caused by bad maintenance. Most of the blocks were in service vehicles and they may or may not change the oil etc. This is just speculation but a well known builder around here junked a bunch of blocks trying to find good cores. He actually won't even use 302 blocks anymore(crate engines) and very soon will not use stock 351 blocks. The stock block is more than capable of your requirements.

If you use a non roller block make sure you buy good link bar lifters. I would do this either way. As far as induction goes(tfs r box) go with a 90mm tb and 4" pipe. Don't choke your motor. Remember you're dealing with a lot more cubic inches and will require as much air flow as possible.

from6to8 · Feb 1, 2017

cool thanks for the insight. Yeah another guy on the corral said avoid the late model F4TE blocks because those or mostly were the issues with the cracking.

srtthis · Feb 2, 2017

you wont make 400" with a stock block and a 3.750 crank

from6to8 · Feb 2, 2017

srtthis said:
you wont make 400" with a stock block and a 3.750 crank

stock 351 block and 3.750 crank will be?

If not, I guess I may go with the Dart.......Gotta see lol

hoopty5.0 · Feb 2, 2017

from6to8 said:
stock 351 block and 3.750 crank will be?

If not, I guess I may go with the Dart.......Gotta see lol

Block won't affect your stroke. 3.75 is a 383(I think) and a 3.85 is a 393. 4.00 makes a 408 if you go .030 over.

srtthis · Feb 2, 2017

from6to8 said:
stock 351 block and 3.750 crank will be?

If not, I guess I may go with the Dart.......Gotta see lol

382.67@4.030
384.57@4.040
388.39@4.060

now for dart block range
394.15@4.090
400.92@4.125
402.87@4.135
406.77@4.155
411.68@4.180

from6to8 · Feb 2, 2017

hoopty5.0 said:
Block won't affect your stroke. 3.75 is a 383(I think) and a 3.85 is a 393. 4.00 makes a 408 if you go .030 over.

OK.
Let me ask the builder

from6to8 · Feb 2, 2017

srtthis said:
382.67@4.030
384.57@4.040
388.39@4.060

now for dart block range
394.15@4.090
400.92@4.125
402.87@4.135
406.77@4.155
411.68@4.180

quotes .
" I can have a Dart block with a considerably larger bore than a stock block"

question: 3.750 crank?

" That's what I'd do using as long of a rod as I can".

question: But you're not sure rather that will be 400 cubes? It could be 383 or 393?

" I'm sure of everything I do buddy "

" It's 400 cubes."

" Connecting rod length has on bearing on cubic inch. "

I have been talking to him for a few years now and he has always helped me out with anything. Helped me put my car back together when had the broken spring on no. 2 cylinder. Bought new springs, locks, retainers for my TFS head(s) and reground my E cam to a different spec to better work with my setup. Texted, talked and helped me do a lot of stuff I wasn't confident to do so I appreciate all of that. He races and builds dirt cars as well. Over the years of talking with him he's a pretty straight forward guy and seems he wouldn't shortchange anyone and would build what you wanted depending on what you told him you wanted to use the car for, ect.

General karthief · Feb 2, 2017

Let me answer your question. If you have the jack for a dart block buy it. If your on a budget a stock 351 will do, there are some talk about cracks but I asked a machine shop about it when it came up and he said he experienced about one in six.
So it is a matter of money, the machine shop did say the dart block is better but its new, also mentioned ford boss blocks so there maybe more choices out there.

from6to8 · Feb 2, 2017

karthief said:
Let me answer your question. If you have the jack for a dart block buy it. If your on a budget a stock 351 will do, there are some talk about cracks but I asked a machine shop about it when it came up and he said he experienced about one in six.
So it is a matter of money, the machine shop did say the dart block is better but its new, also mentioned ford boss blocks so there maybe more choices out there.

appreciate the reply. I have considered the possibility of maybe not finding a good block till about the sixth one lol. Just think that would be wasted money. I will call a shop tommorow and see what the cost would be to go through and check it for cracks and depending on what I may be looking at to say even if it's just 3 blocks to find a good one, I'd have to weigh losing that amount of money.

So one of those things where I might just fork up the money on a dart.

General karthief · Feb 2, 2017

When I said one in six I meant one bad one to the last six he worked on so your odds are better.

from6to8 · Feb 2, 2017

karthief said:
When I said one in six I meant one bad one to the last six he worked on so your odds are better.

gotcha.

Well talking to another shop a minute ago albeit one far far from me in california, he said it's about $100 to check the block out and make sure it's good. So that's not bad. I have to call my local shop here to see what the cost would be.

Only thing is even though there's potentially could be a huge cost difference between the dart and the stock block, I will have a 383 or a 400 so thats more cubes spending more money on the dart. That same shop that I called confirmed that using a Dart big bore and 3.750 crank with a 6. something rod that will be 400 C.I.

So right now I will ask my builder possible HP and torque differences between the 383 and the dart. Getting the HP out of the bigger cubes via big bore is much much better right?

Seems a 383 is mainly a chevy and also a 400, but IIRC talking to him before he said that using the Ford firing order would give me the mustang sound. I will ask him about that again because I definitely have to have that stang sound

General karthief · Feb 2, 2017

from6to8 said:
gotcha.

Well talking to another shop a minute ago albeit one far far from me in california, he said it's about $100 to check the block out and make sure it's good. So that's not bad. I have to call my local shop here to see what the cost would be.

Only thing is even though there's potentially could be a huge cost difference between the dart and the stock block, I will have a 383 or a 400 so thats more cubes spending more money on the dart. That same shop that I called confirmed that using a Dart big bore and 3.750 crank with a 6. something rod that will be 400 C.I.

So right now I will ask my builder possible HP and torque differences between the 383 and the dart. Getting the HP out of the bigger cubes via big bore is much much better right?

Seems a 383 is mainly a chevy and also a 400, but IIRC talking to him before he said that using the Ford firing order would give me the mustang sound. I will ask him about that again because I definitely have to have that stang sound

Get the 383 is a chevy thing outta your head, also I've never heard of that mustang sound, sound is relative to header, h pipe with or without cats and muffler/ tailpipe thing. You can tune your exhaust to an extent. As for horse power, every body loves the big hp numbers but it the torque numbers that get you moving, if your building a street crusier get your torque in the right place and the hp will follow through. Just remember, you gotta slow all that hp down so save some budget for brake upgrades.

from6to8 · Feb 2, 2017

karthief said:
Get the 383 is a chevy thing outta your head, also I've never heard of that mustang sound, sound is relative to header, h pipe with or without cats and muffler/ tailpipe thing. You can tune your exhaust to an extent. As for horse power, every body loves the big hp numbers but it the torque numbers that get you moving, if your building a street crusier get your torque in the right place and the hp will follow through. Just remember, you gotta slow all that hp down so save some budget for brake upgrades.

I feel ya but even a stock 5.0 mustang, as i remember the fox mustangs, had that distinctive sound. Or maybe it was more so a flow master thing. I remember the distinctive sound of flowmasters on a mustang. I always thought there was a difference in hearing a chevy vs hearing a mustang.

yes as for brakes I will be going to 13 inch brakes. I've made notes and believe I have decided on the Cobra fronts and forgot about what I have down for the rear brakes.

from6to8 · Feb 17, 2017

Talking to one of my fellow veterans after not seeing him in years, he told me he has a 408 in his car. I knew he had a convertible fox after reconnecting with him on fb a few years ago but I was thinking he had a 302 for the most part. He , as most have said, is that if I go with a Dart I might as well maximize the block. But for what I will use the car for, a non track car and weekend driver, how big is too big for the street?

My components are likely to be ( for the 400) :

Dart block
3.750 crank to make it around 400 C.I.
custom cam by the builder
Box R intake more than likely
AFR 205 cc heads
Fox TB setup
Anderson powerpipe

As for what you guys would recommend, enlighten me and also what listed above would change? I'm guessing the heads for sure as well as the crank

Also, what are the engine sizes going up in cubes? I know 351, 363, 383, 400, 408, 418, 427......Then????

Dart Or Stock?

There's suction so I used that end O_O

mechanicus terribilis

If you're the village idiot what's that make me?

There's suction so I used that end O_O

At least it is lumpy...

There's suction so I used that end O_O

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

There's suction so I used that end O_O

mechanicus terribilis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

There's suction so I used that end O_O

There's suction so I used that end O_O

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

There's suction so I used that end O_O

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

There's suction so I used that end O_O

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

There's suction so I used that end O_O

There's suction so I used that end O_O

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