degreeing cams?

[LaserRed01GT]

Word....that is what they say right?!

Oh boy, now you are showing your age you old fart. LOL

 

[Dusstbuster]

This is a Tech article and as one I think you guys could at least keep the unneeded fighting out of it? Who's going to be the first to man up and just leave it alone...I have a feeling I know who it'll be.

What Hotmustang's trying to say by the way is that degreeing cams is a very smart Idea and for 95% of cams on the market you should degree them. He's saying you don't have to whip out all the handy dandy tools that "degreeing" normally is associated with on VT stage 1 cams, if they went in the way the old ones came out you'll be fine is what hes saying. Thats it...Now grow up everyone.

 

[Fast Eddie 41]

This is a Tech article and as one I think you guys could at least keep the unneeded fighting out of it? Who's going to be the first to man up and just leave it alone...I have a feeling I know who it'll be.

What Hotmustang's trying to say by the way is that degreeing cams is a very smart Idea and for 95% of cams on the market you should degree them. He's saying you don't have to whip out all the handy dandy tools that "degreeing" normally is associated with on VT stage 1 cams, if they went in the way the old ones came out you'll be fine is what hes saying. Thats it...Now grow up everyone.

You are right, this is a tech thread (article), and technical discussions are normally best suited to the readers with less experience when those giving advice to others have a competent understanding or professional experience under their belts in regards to the actions being discussed. Hearsay, like is being tossed around in this thread, is exactly how rumors and misinformation get rampantly spread across the internet.

If you guys feel comfortable installing your camshafts without degreeing them with a wheel, then by all means do so. When someone brings us a car they will get degreed the correct way and that is all we are saying.

 

[Dusstbuster]

Alright that's cool. And alls Hot's saying is that some people don't have all the required tools for a "proper" degreeing of cams and that if they have VT Stage 1's they don't have to worry too much about PTV contact as long as the Stg1's go in the same way the old cams came out. Obviously if a shop does it I'd expect them to degree it to a professional standard and quality, but for the DIY'er with THESE CAMS ONLY they don't have to worry too much.

 

[Stan Weiss]

I think some people do not understand what degreeing a cam is for. It is to make sure the cam is correct and installed correctly. You would not be the first person to get the wrong cam from the manufacturer. How would you know? When you degree the cam you should not only be checking the intake centerline but valve lift, 0.05 duration and adv duration of both intake and exhaust. PTV is another story as is checking spring seat pressure, open pressure, coil bind, retaner to guide / oil seal. Just because the manufacturer says that there will be no PTV problem is not a reason not to check things. BUT IT IS YOUR ENGINE

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Alright that's cool. And alls Hot's saying is that some people don't have all the required tools for a "proper" degreeing of cams and that if they have VT Stage 1's they don't have to worry too much about PTV contact as long as the Stg1's go in the same way the old cams came out. Obviously if a shop does it I'd expect them to degree it to a professional standard and quality, but for the DIY'er with THESE CAMS ONLY they don't have to worry too much.

Sure PTV contact is not a big concern when installing a tiny Stage 1 camshaft with everything lined up correctly, but camshafts can vary even from the same manufacturer and even the same batch. Everybody's valvesprings will vary, timing chain stretch, the condition of the followers, etc., etc.. You people installing your own cams should be checking your ICL's, your gross lift, your IVO, IVC events, etc. But like Stan and Matt said, it's your motor. I wouldn't even think of not degreeing a cam correctly on one of my cars no matter how small the camshaft was.

There is something that is also important. In my opinion the entire reason people choose to install a aftermarket camshaft(s) is to gain performance. Manufacturing tolerances, chain stretch, crankshaft aligmment, cylinder head deck thickness, ground in advance, can all effect the outcome of the relationship of the camshaft and cranshaft. The Stage 1's provide relatively small power gains as it is, so that to me makes it even more important to properly degree them with dial indicator and wheel to ensure that you will be optimizing the cam timing and then the tune. Afterall that is the goal with installing aftermarket camshafts...to make more power.

 

[Stan Weiss]

Are you taking you vehicle to the dyno to get tuned or buying a canned tune?
The engine is a 4.6l 2v 9.0:1 cr with 271 degrees intake @ .008,
115.5 CL, 115.5 LSA IVC 71 ABDC you will have 161 PSI cranking pressure and 6.847 DVR
111.5 CL, 115.5 LSA IVC 67 ABDC you will have 168.7 PSI cranking pressure and 7.079 DVR
119.5 CL, 115.5 LSA IVC 75 ABDC you will have 153 PSI cranking pressure and 6.605 DVR
Why you degree a cam or one tune does not fit all the same.

 

[04YELLOWGT]

Im taking it to a dyno to get it tuned but Im having the cams put in the same time the new motor is going in so I cant be going WOT untill I have about 1000 miles on it. I was wondering about the tune because of idel issues and what not with the new cams.

 

[Fast Eddie 41]

Im taking it to a dyno to get it tuned but Im having the cams put in the same time the new motor is going in so I cant be going WOT untill I have about 1000 miles on it. I was wondering about the tune because of idel issues and what not with the new cams.

You will be fine....just don't go into open loop at WOT. As long as your MAF and O2 sensors are functioning properly, you'll be able to break it in properly. Just follow your builder's break in instructions.

 

[04YELLOWGT]

I just found out the engine will be shipped out tomorrow so it looks like the engine might be in the car by the end of this month. Ill keep everyone updated.

It sucks we havent had any bad weather here all winter and now were getting freezing rain. Break in might be while.

 

[hotmustang331]

You guys are still trying to argue points that I AGREE with .

Dusstbuster (thanks man!) said it clear as day...several times. Yet you still try and argue.

Ok, look, im not arguing here, just making a statement for the last time....now listen carefully...sure your paying attention?

Im NOT against degreeing your cam shaft, NEVER said I was. I reccomend it for EVERY cam shaft....even the VT stg 1 cams.
You (Lasered) said that every camshaft MUST be degreed.
I simply said, not true...you dont HAVE to on the VT stg 1 cams because there is no chance of PTV contact, although I DO recommend it. Thats it....nothing to argue about, I AGREE with everthing else your saying.

VT engines also says the same thing (if you want me to drag them in here I can) about the stg 1 cams....and they also said the same thing about their VT STg 2 blower cams. (new to me)

And I recall you (Lasered) saying that if any engine builder or anyone else tells you that degreeing a certain cam is not required, then that person should not listen to anything else that person/engine builder has to say about engines and basically to take their buisness elsewhere.

That means your calling VT Engines out and telling us to not listen to anything else they say....yes, one of the best and finest modular engine builders in the country. (that wont fly over well with 90% of the people here) If this continues...I just cant do anything more. So ill just get ahold of Scott or Jim...im sure they would be thrilled with what you indirectly said about their company .

All in all, iv tried to be nice....and I feel that I have been VERY clear with my position. Even other people stepped in to help you understand...but hopefully you will after reading this.
I know you have a reputation to uphold and all that jaz being that your engine builders or whatever....but I think its time you guys give up and not worry about making yourselves look good.
We ALL know you 2 have amazing amounts of knowledge (MUCH more than me..im just a DIYer that reads alot )...so no need to try and prove that further.

 

[Fast Eddie 41]

You guys are still trying to argue points that I AGREE with .

Dusstbuster (thanks man!) said it clear as day...several times. Yet you still try and argue.

Ok, look, im not arguing here, just making a statement for the last time....now listen carefully...sure your paying attention?

Im NOT against degreeing your cam shaft, NEVER said I was. I reccomend it for EVERY cam shaft....even the VT stg 1 cams.
You (Lasered) said that every camshaft MUST be degreed.
I simply said, not true...you dont HAVE to on the VT stg 1 cams because there is no chance of PTV contact, although I DO recommend it. Thats it....nothing to argue about, I AGREE with everthing else your saying.

VT engines also says the same thing (if you want me to drag them in here I can) about the stg 1 cams....and they also said the same thing about their VT STg 2 blower cams. (new to me)

And I recall you (Lasered) saying that if any engine builder or anyone else tells you that degreeing a certain cam is not required, then that person should not listen to anything else that person/engine builder has to say about engines and basically to take their buisness elsewhere.

That means your calling VT Engines out and telling us to not listen to anything else they say....yes, one of the best and finest modular engine builders in the country. (that wont fly over well with 90% of the people here) If this continues...I just cant do anything more. So ill just get ahold of Scott or Jim...im sure they would be thrilled with what you indirectly said about their company .

All in all, iv tried to be nice....and I feel that I have been VERY clear with my position. Even other people stepped in to help you understand...but hopefully you will after reading this.
I know you have a reputation to uphold and all that jaz being that your engine builders or whatever....but I think its time you guys give up and not worry about making yourselves look good.
We ALL know you 2 have amazing amounts of knowledge (MUCH more than me..im just a DIYer that reads alot )...so no need to try and prove that further.

Do you feel better that you've stroked your ego some more now?

 

[SaleenGT2001]

:ZipIt: DAMN just STFU already. nobody cares anymore. go build some nascar engines and stuff em in your 78 f150 or something.

 

[SaleenGT2001]

Wow, I was just about to leave when I saw this. You are going to slammed on this tomorrow morning when Kevin reads this disrepectful nonsense you just posted. To say that Kevin doesn't have the experience in regards to camshafts is just plain ignorant and laughable to no end (I'm sure he will be happy to "kindly" explain to you in the morning).... by the way I wasn't aware that you knew Kevin, or I, personally, and were intimately aware of our backgrounds, experience, and technical education level. Don't be so naive.

Do you feel better that you've stroked your ego some more now?

are you his f'n wife or what? you have to defend him with every comment. i bet your heads in so deep you cant even see anymore


oohhhh you're gonna get slammed!!! i could give a rats ass if you have built 20000 engines. you are not the GOD of the modular world.

as far as your technical education level i do not know. what i do know is that you are one of the most annoying people i have EVER seen on this board.

once again

STFU THIS **** IS GETTING OLD QUICK!

 

[Dusstbuster]

I vote to ban Fast Eddie just because he provides nothing useful and is a troll.

 

[SaleenGT2001]

i second that!

he just keeps stirring the sh it

 

[Stan Weiss]

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Instructions/Files/145.pdf
You are right Comp Cams says you do not have to degree in a cam . But if you want max performance it is recommended. So when you get beat at the track or the other guy dynos more HP who cares? You did it your way.

 

[jivepepper]

Afterall that is the goal with installing aftermarket camshafts...to make more power.

Nah! It's because they sound cool.

 

['01 Steed]

Nah! It's because they sound cool.

LOL!! I gotta say, that has to be the second best thing about a nice cam....potatoe-potatoe-potatoe.....

 

[LaserRed01GT]

:ZipIt: DAMN just STFU already. nobody cares anymore. go build some nascar engines and stuff em in your 78 f150 or something.

are you his f'n wife or what? you have to defend him with every comment. i bet your heads in so deep you cant even see anymore


oohhhh you're gonna get slammed!!! i could give a rats ass if you have built 20000 engines. you are not the GOD of the modular world.

as far as your technical education level i do not know. what i do know is that you are one of the most annoying people i have EVER seen on this board.

once again

STFU THIS **** IS GETTING OLD QUICK!

Those two posts are quite possibly the rudest, most immature and disrepectful comments I have read on this entire board so far. I don't see where Fast Eddie personally attacked anyone in here, he was just stating his opinion, but he sure did get attacked.

What started this was when hotmustang331 jumped in here and started popping off his mouth that "you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to these cams and their specs". This guy doesn't even know me and he starts spouting off facts about what I do and don't know. I've busted my ass going to technical schooling, running my own businesses, spending time at various tracks all over the nation on several different racing teams, and studying cars and motors on my own just to get where I am. That kind of disrepsect has no place here on this board and really pisses me off.