Diagnosis help...one last time (kinda long)

[extremetrek]

Okay, I have posted this issue kinda before but I wll post it one more time because something new has propagated...all help is appreciated.

1.) Car idles really really weird ever since my intake install. Its kinda like a rythmic beat, and the car shakes...you can especially feel this at low low speed and sitting at a stoplight.

2.) The low oil light came on today and I was down prolly about 1.5-2 qts. Its been 3500 miles since my last oil change. Its never burned oil before...there is no smoke, there was no coolant in the oil, no oil in the coolant etc...

3.) City gas mileage is down from 17ish mpg to about 13.

4.) Car sometimes dies when put into D or R (AOD-E)

The car as about 112k on the clock. Intake swap very recently but it seemed to go really well.

I am also having an issue with the transmission that I have attributed to the neutral safety switch (MLPS) which I am replacing tommorow but I don't think that has much to do with it. All its causing is the car to downshift randomly, sometimes all the way to neutral (maybe causing bad gas mileage?)

Its really hot here, triple digits most the time and quite humid, dunno if that has anything to do with it.

I do get engine codes for the thermactor air control system and I have questioned whether or not by cats could be clogged up nicely.

I plan full tune up tommorow or the next day depending upon when I get the MLPS finished (plugs, wires, cap and rotor) I run 89 octane because I ping with the lower stuff. Also plan to clean the IAC and the like.

Couple of things I was thinking were that the little thingamajig (sorry I dunno what its called) that plugs in to the lower intake in the back sits pretty loose and might not be working (maybe thats the PCV?), some of the plug wires are not seperated very well and may be arcing, the idle may be set wrong and that may cause a lot of fuel burn, and the distributor may have been reinstalled just slightly off.

Anyway, I need this car it is my transportation to school and my DD. School is 1,000 miles away and I am leaving soon so I want to check EVERY possibility. The car is stil fairly new to me and I have no idea about the maintenance record before I got it. All help is appreciated, I check this board almost hourly so feel free to ask questions or for pictures, or even sound clip maybe.

Sorry so long, thanks for your time!

 

[RIO5.0]

well if it was running ok, and now its running like ass I would doublecheck some stuff..

The oil consumption may be the intake swap....they tend to suck up oil with the swap...some brands more than others...
I would suggest an oil separator...I just added one and was amazed at the oil mine was getting...my gas milage also improved after adding the separator...go figure, but i can vouch for the MPG improving....

If it was me I would go over all the vac lines...pull em all and make sure there are not splits where the lines attach...you can swap all the vac line for under 12.00 or so...do it and be done with it...Have access to a vacuum gage? Plug one in and see it the readings are jumping...a sure sign of a vac leak...

I would also re-verify the timing is correct.....with 112k your balancer may be junk and slipped not giving you a correct reading...whats the timing at?
Verify TDC of #1 to the balancer then the relation of the rotor to #1 on the cap...see if thing are in alignment...

I would check all the above and re-set the idle per the link....run thru all 5 steps just to see where things are....nothing funky...very straight forward tune stuff..

seems to me you need to tweak a tad due to the swap...it sounds like your probs arose after that ? Tune-up is always good....

Hope that helps some...

 

[extremetrek]

OKay, well the tune up is where I was heading just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time. I don't have a timing light, do you think I should break down and buy one or is there another way? I know that the link says you should be able to spin the distributor but I couldn't It was weird. When I reinstalled the dizzy I could line up the rotor, then go to install the dizzy aligned with the marks I made, then the rotor would spin off somewhere else and the dizzy wouldn't move at all, so how does it just spin?

The swap was awhile ago and directly after it still seemed to run pretty well...I was getting up to 20mpg in mostly city driving and saw up to 27mpg on the highway with the top down. The oil seemed to stay level and the car felt good and strong. The first problems (dieing) started about two weeks after the swap, then I started getting heat out of the floorboard, then the tranny switch went all crazy, and now the new oil issue.

Anyway, if anyone else has ideas please post, if not then I will just run through the full tune up listed in my haynes and then see what happens.

Oh yah, can anyone identify the aforementioned thingamajig? It rests in the little hole in the back of the lower (albeit not very well, it just kinda sits there not at all sealed). It has a vacuum hose which runs underneath the upper. Any ideas on the proper diameters of the vaccuum hoses under there? Thanks again, sorry to take so much time with this but the more that goes wrong the poor I feel like pushing her off a cliff with the most riced out civic ever and video taping it.....ooo scary.....thanks again!

 

[CManT1914]

Well the oil consumption is most likely a bad PCV screen, which is that thingamajig you referred to. It has probably either gone bad or whatever. Like RIO said, replace that, and GET AN OIL SEPERATOR!! That will eliminate 99% of the oil being sent back through your upper intake.

Not sure about the size of the hose, but you can reuse that, so no worries there. If you buy an oil seperator like the one Steeda carries, it should come with the new hoses.

What do you mean you can't twist the dizzy? Is your dizzy hold-down bolt loose? If you forgot to loosen it, it won't budge.

Check out that PCV, if it slides in and out fairly easily, then there's probably a vacuum leak there, and it's not functioning right.

 

[extremetrek]

Yeah the PCV definitely slides in and out VERY easily. So where do I get this screen and how do I know which one to buy? Something I can just run down to the local Schucks (AKA Kragen/Checker) and grab one?

Yeah, the hold down bolt was definitely loosened it just wouldn't move. Teh biggest problem with it was that the fuel line at the front of the intake is in the way making it extremely difficult to get it into position, so maybe its sitting funky.

How do I get the engine to TDC as easily as possible to reposition the dizzy for the timing check?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the stang net community working with rocket scientist idiots like myself.

EDIT: Thinking about it and checking the stocker, the stock lower has a screen type thing in the bottom of the hole where the PCV was, whereas the trick flow was just a hole I think....could this be the problem? The screen on the old lower doesn't seem to clean though, looks like a good bit of gunk there and i'm not sure it would come out.

 

[CManT1914]

You can get the PCV screen at any parts store, it's cheap too, I don't remember mine costing more than $10.

Hmmm...... that's strange that the dizzy won't spin. Make sure it's not rubbing against anything, like that fuel rail corssover.

Just turn the crank over manually until the 10* mark is lined up in the hole on the timing window. Then drop the dizzy in to where the rotor is pointing to the number 1 cylinder point. As it drops in, it will spin clockwise, so back it up a ways before dropping it in. It might take a few tries.

The oil seperator simply goes in the middle of that hose from the PCV to the upper intake. Basically, a new hose runs to the oil seperator, where a filter seperates the oil from the air and dumps it into a drainable canister (for recycling) and then the clean air goes out the other side through another hose and right into the upper intake where it originally would have gone anyway. Steeda.com has them for like $60 or something, they are a BREEZE to install, even easier if you're replacing the PCV anyway.

Good luck!
-Chris

 

[CManT1914]

EDIT: Thinking about it and checking the stocker, the stock lower has a screen type thing in the bottom of the hole where the PCV was, whereas the trick flow was just a hole I think....could this be the problem? The screen on the old lower doesn't seem to clean though, looks like a good bit of gunk there and i'm not sure it would come out.

If the screen is all gummed it, it needs to be replaced.

 

[extremetrek]

And if the screen doesn't exist at all, would it explain any of my issues?

 

[CManT1914]

And if the screen doesn't exist at all, would it explain any of my issues?

Oh yea, I would imagine then way too much oil would flow through that hose into the upper intake, then into the combustion chambers. That would cause massive oil consumption, poor fuel economy, and poor performance as well. Pull a plug or two, I bet they're all oily.

 

[extremetrek]

Roger that, looks like thats probably the problem. So now what do I do to clean it up. Will the oil just burn up in the combustion chambers or do I need to pull the heads and clean it all out. Do I need to remove the lower and look for a mess there. I just want it all better and soon, so what to do about it. Looking at my pics I see that there was no screen in the hole at all....oops!

EDIT: If the PCV is in the lower why would the oil get to the upper? Does the flow come out of the lower and into the upper?

 

[CManT1914]

No need to pull the heads or the lower, the oil should just burn off. You can run some seafoam through it to be sure.

The upper creates a vacuum that sucks air from the lower (along with which comes oil) and so that oil is pulled up from the lower. It sucks huh?

EDIT: I'm going to sleep, gotta be up at 5:45 tomorrow morning Feel free to PM me if you have more questions. I'll check this thread when I get up. Good luck!
-Chris

 

[extremetrek]

It sucks huh?

-Chris

Well I think thats the problem (in more ways than one) Thanks alot, I will go down and get a new screen/grommet/valve tommorow and replace it....also look into the oil seperator.

I'll post again here when I get some more information or if I have another question. I really appreciate the help.

 

[HISSIN50]

Dont forget a new PCV grommet - your PCV valve should not slide in and out all loosey-goosey. The grommets tend to vulcanize and allow this.

I will note that some aftermarket PCV valves are known for not seating real tight, which can cause the valve to pop out. When I did the last PCV renewal (on the '94), I had to use silicone spray on the base of the PCV to get it into the grommet.

The separator is a great idea. I did mine a little different than Andy (we have different intakes). I removed the hose from the valve to the "tee" connection at the rear of the upper. New hose from that Tee to the separator and then a line from the separator to the PCV valve.

Good luck.

 

[extremetrek]

I am also noticing that I din't reinstall the baffle from the stock lower to the new lower. Darn it, how important is this piece? I replaced the screen and the PCV grommet is that going to stop the oil or should I pull the lower to put the baffle on it? I knew I was forgetting something.

 

[RIO5.0]

The baffle really needs to be in there...the baffle is there to fight the problem your having....she's just sucking the oil mist right outta the engine valley right thru the PCV valve and into the intake... not good..The screen will help slow it down some...but wont cure a baffle missing...
a separator would be a quick fix for sure....easier than removing that intake again...DOH... :damnit:

You need one of these mother's....Left line feeds right from the PCV valve...Right line feeds back to the intake....Chit I went 500 miles or less and had to empty mine already...yours must be woofing oil bigtime...

 

[mootang]

I had the same problem and it was the rear seal on the intake was leaking oil and causing a vacume leak. the rear seal on the valley.

 

[extremetrek]

okay, so just to check, if I get the separator I don't need to tear out the intake and reinstall the baffle right away correct?

 

[RIO5.0]

okay, so just to check, if I get the separator I don't need to tear out the intake and reinstall the baffle right away correct?

I would try the separator first if your not willing to rip the intake again to throw the baffle in....Going by how mine is working I would think it would be a quick fix for what your up against...you need 3/8 fuel line for the connections...depending where you mount it...3 ft of hose will do it all up...
try it...whatya got to loose...could be an instant fix for you...beats ripping the intake off if you dont want to...
As was mentioned, check those end seals to...

 

[extremetrek]

The seals look good and I guess I will throw the other $60 into getting the oil separator (sure beats pulling that beast of an intake)

OT: I also did the MLPS/Neutral Safety Switch/Transmission selector today. Man is that a PITA...First it wouldn't start unless I had my hand pushing the selector all the way forward, and now the back-up lights won't come on. Oh well, at least it likes to stay in gear now. Thanks again for all the help, i'll let ya'll know if I have any issues with the oil separator.

 

[CManT1914]

Good to hear you're making some progress. Let us know what you find with that oil seperator. I completely forgot about the front and rear seals possibly being bad. Which is sad, because I just got done replacing both of mine. I was stupid and reused the stock ones, well after I blew a head gasket, I had the motor apart and was looking at those seals, and each one was cracked in half right down the middle and chewed to pieces. You mentioned yours looked good, but have they ever been replaced? Or are you still using the stock pieces? It's really not hard at all to pull the intake. I've gotten to where I can have the upper off in 10 minutes. Another 15 for the lower, that includes removing the fuel rails and heater core lines. You could probably pull that lower and swap seals in an hour.