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Died while driving, crank no start

  • Thread starter Thread starter Buck94
  • Start date Start date Apr 28, 2009
B

Buck94

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Apr 28, 2009
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Apr 28, 2009
#1
  • Apr 28, 2009
  • #1
94 Cobra former daily driver now driven less than 1k a year, 42k miles, bone stock except for K&N filter, near perfect condition if you don't consider that it won't start.

I drove it a few weeks ago after sitting for a month. Started fine and ran perfect for 7 miles. Stopped for about 45min then headed home.

3 miles from home I ran medium acceleration through 1st gear, shift to second and hold it on the floor till @5500rpm pulling smooth and strong the whole time. Then let off, slow down and continue at 45mph 4th gear. 1 mile to go engine starts chugging as if running out of gas or having elec problem. It would run at minimum throttle but bog if I tried to accelerate. I turn into the neighborhood and it dies and will not start.

Before I found the checklist I did these things (not in order)

Listened for fuel pump, sounds normal and sprays out of valve near throttle body.
Replaced fuel filter.
Added two gallons of fresh fuel to verify gauge is working. Fuel in it was not old.
Distributor is tight
Unplug MAF sensor
Hold throttle at all different positions
Spray either into throttle body
Test injectors with noid light
Check for good spark at plug
Cleaned IAC with carb cleaner
Checked inertia switch
Disconnect neg battery cable for awhile

Now that I found the checklist do I need to do all that stuff if I have good spark and seemingly good fuel pressure? Thanks.
 
W

WhiteFox90

New Member
Apr 27, 2009
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Apr 28, 2009
#2
  • Apr 28, 2009
  • #2
i would say fuel pump but you said you already checked it...sounds like the coil...see if you can find one a friend has...b/c if you buy a new one and try it and thats not it you cant return it.....the coil has gone out on my cousins car twice and my car once.....it sounds like the same problem your having...have you ever replaced the coil?
 

jrichker

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  • Apr 28, 2009
  • #3
Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.


Revised 22-Mar-2009 to change links for electrical diagrams
All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector (small red/blue wire) from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.

No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) TFI module: use a test light to check the TFI module. Place one lead of the test light on the red/green wire on the ignition coil connector and the other lead on the dark green/yellow wire on the ignition coil connector. If the TFI is working properly, the test light will flash when the engine is cranked using the ignition switch.
C.) Coil
D.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. See paragraph 5A - a noid light will tell if the pip is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
E.) No ECC or computer power - ECC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
F.) No ECC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire with the switch in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position, then the fuse or fuse link is blown.
Note: fuses or fuse links blow for a reason. Don’t replace either a fuse or fuse link with one with a larger rating than stock. Doing so invites an electrical fire.
Ignition fuse links may be replaced with an inline fuse holder and 5 amp fuse for troubleshooting purposes.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp fuse
H.) Missing or loose computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery. It is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire. You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
I.) Computer.
J.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
K.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.

Wiring Diagrams:]/b]…

Sorry, the AutoZone wiring diagram links no longer work. You can navigate to the diagrams yourself via AutoZone.com | Repair Info and select the car year, make, model and engine. That will enable you to bring up the wiring diagram for your particular car.

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information Everyone should bookmark this site.


Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for94-95 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:

A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.


If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector wiring.
The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the injector is firing.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
D.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
E.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
F.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
G.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.99 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine.
 
B

Buck94

New Member
Apr 28, 2009
5
0
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Nashville
Apr 28, 2009
#4
  • Apr 28, 2009
  • #4
Thanks for the replies. I have not replaced the coil. Could the coil keep it from starting when there is strong spark at the plugs?

jrichker, do I need to go through the whole list if I have good spark, pressure, and the injectors are firing? It seems that the list is to verify all those are o.k.???

I haven't actually measured the fuel pressure at the schrader valve but there is plenty of gas coming out when I press in the valve.
 
B

BYRDPE

Founding Member
Nov 4, 1998
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0
37
Memphis,Tn.
Apr 28, 2009
#5
  • Apr 28, 2009
  • #5
Are your plugs getting wet? If you have good fp and you have been trying to start the engine constantly they should be wet if the pressure is good.

Posted via Mobile Device
 

Darkwriter77

Resident Ranting Negative Nancy
5 Year Member
Jul 1, 2005
315
283
134
Apache Junction, AZ
Apr 28, 2009
#6
  • Apr 28, 2009
  • #6
Had the same thing happen to my '89 notch. Turned out to be the pickup coil in the reman'ed distributor that I'd just put in about a month before then - apparently, they don't bother to replace the pickup coil when A1 Cardone "remanufactures" them. The little magnet of the coil came out and was touching against the spokes inside the dizzy, so it just coughed once or twice when I was about a block away from home and then just died.

Check the pickup coil with a voltmeter to see if it's within specs (consult Chilton manual for numbers). If that passes, maybe pull the distributor and see if the same thing happened to yours that happened to mine with the magnet of the coil coming out.
 

jrichker

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#7
  • Apr 28, 2009
  • #7
You will need to check all the items on the checklist. Branch or jump to the next section only when you are sure that the primary item in that section is working as designed.

Here's why:
The idea behind the laundry list of things to check is because I can't be your eyes and ears over the Internet. So you get a long list of possible causes and problems. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. The plan is to eliminate the things that work so the only items left are the things that don't work This methodology is call structured troubleshooting: master it and you can fix practically anything.
 
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Buck94

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Apr 28, 2009
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Apr 29, 2009
#8
  • Apr 29, 2009
  • #8
Thanks guys. I'll start at the top of the list today and report back later.
 
B

Buck94

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Apr 28, 2009
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Apr 29, 2009
#9
  • Apr 29, 2009
  • #9
Still working...When I trick the fuel pump to work by jumping the EEC test conector the pump runs and after a few seconds I can hear a hissing/air sound (I know it's a Cobra) near the pax side fuel rail. It is coming from inside either the fuel rail, throttle body, or upper intake. It is not external because I can't change the sound by moving my hand around all those places and I can't pinpoint the exact location of the sound.

Is that sound normal with the engine not running?

I'm going to the parts store now to get a fuel pressure gauge. Thanks.
 

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
27,512
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Dublin GA
Apr 29, 2009
#10
  • Apr 29, 2009
  • #10
The hissing noise is probably the fuel pressure regulator passing fuel back to the tank. If the pressure is Ok, don't worry about it.
 
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Buck94

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Apr 28, 2009
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Apr 29, 2009
#11
  • Apr 29, 2009
  • #11
The pressure is 41 with the pump running and 38 when it is off. Bled down to 32 after 15 minutes. I'm sure I have fuel, spark, and air. Is there some other switch not on the checklist that will prevent it from running if it's not happy. Thanks.
 

jrichker

StangNet's favorite TOOL
In Remembrance. Thank you for your contributions
Mar 10, 2000
27,512
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Dublin GA
Apr 30, 2009
#12
  • Apr 30, 2009
  • #12
How bad do you want to drive the car? Bad enough to go through
the checklist and verify what works and what doesn't?

Good troubleshooting takes time. Everyone seems to be looking for
the magic tip that says replace this $13 part and your problems are
cured. You don't have to think, dig or diagnose, just buy the part and
install it. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work that way 99% of the time.
Thinking is hard work and educated thinking requires much more
effort than simple parts swapping. The complexity and age of these
5.0 Mustangs works against that, as well as the number of hands
that have “modified” the original design. Sometimes that
modification is well done with good workmanship and other times it
is mechanical road kill. It is very easy to become the victim of the
previous owner’s efforts.

I spend a great deal of time trying to communicate the methodology
of structured troubleshooting principles. For those who haven’t been
beaten with this stick before, here they are again:

1.) Understand the system. That involves reading some books to get
an overall picture of how it works. For 5.0 Mustangs, that list starts
with the Chilton shop manual and the Probst book, Ford Fuel
Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles
Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3. It's about $30 from Borders.com, see
Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more. Select books and then select
search. Use the ISBN number (without dashes or spaces) to do a
search. Use the ISBN number and your local library can get you a
loaner copy for free for 2 weeks or so. Another resource is the
following website by Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds
(website host) for help on 88-95 wiring:
Mustang FAQ - Engine Information. Study
the diagrams and tech articles. There is an amazing amount of good
stuff in one place for FREE.

2.) Isolate the problem. You need to be able to break the system
down into functional blocks or subsystems. Once you know what
subsystem has failed, it is much easier to troubleshoot. Group
problem symptoms according to what system controls them. Don’t
look for a fix for ignition problems by adjusting the fuel pressure.
Have an organized, step by step, approach to work your way through
a subsystem and check its functions. Work all the way through a
subsystem before you quit and go off wildly chasing rabbits. You
have three tools to use in your efforts: measure, meter and
observe
. Use these three tools to narrow down the list of possible
failure points into a small, easily managed list of items.

3.) Install the fix. .Now that you have a short list of suspected
villains, plan your repair efforts so that you do the easy things first.
If an item from the easy list didn’t fix your problem, then look at the
high failure rate items. Spend some time here on Stangnet and you’ll
get an idea of what the most commonly replaced parts are, things
like TFI modules, ignition switches and fuel pumps.

If you make a change and it doesn’t relieve the problem symptoms,
put it back the way it was. I have a stack of parts from where I
swapped a part and it didn’t fix the problem. I put the old part back
on the car and the new part went on the shelf. Someday I will either
use them or trade them for something else.
 
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