Don't count on the next Cobra getting the Ford GT engine.

Z28x · Oct 29, 2004

http://www.karkraft.com/engines.htm

$44,995.00 for the engine alone.

I'll stick with the current engine or the new 6.2L coming out.

ZmanGT05 · Oct 29, 2004

Yeah I beleive people are having pipe dreams, about the next Cobra getting that motor,unless it is very detuned and the car would still end up being 50k.

jasonlee0704 · Oct 29, 2004

Um... yeah... that's known as RETAIL PRICE.

What Ford pays in labor, materials, and overhead costs is sometimes much, much different than the price that consumers have to pay to get their hands on the product... especially if a lot of people are willing to shell out a lot of dough for said product.

If Ford SVT wanted to use the GT longblock in their next Cobra, I guarantee that it'd cost them a tenth or less of your $45K quote per unit to get more GT engines internally. And there's no cost savings to detuning the GT engine for another car - manufacturers do that to avoid cannabalizing sales of a higher-end, higher-profit product.

RandyB · Oct 29, 2004

Yeah, that engine isn't made of gold. It's made of the same materials as their other engines. There is no reason for it to sell for that price when a 4.6 version ('03 Cobra) sells for 25% of that price.

Jpjr · Oct 29, 2004

Can someone please tell me why they think (besides desire) that Ford would ever put the GT motor in the Cobra?

Lets see, so your saying that they are going to pull the motor out of a $150,000 car and detune it for a $45k Cobra. Hmm.. so with a few thousands in mods the $45k Cobra driver could have similar performance as the GT driver.

GET REAL. It's just like drug companies.. just because they invented viagara and it doesn't cost them a penny more to make an extra pill does not mean they will give the drug away for free. That R&D is no longer being expensed for accounting purposes. It's being allocated and amortized since the product was seen to fruition.

Bottom Line: Ford could not sell the GT for $150k and put the same motor in the Cobra. It's not profitable. This is a big reason why they will likely outsource the Cobra anyway. For product placement/pricing stategical purposes, I would expect to see a 4v 4.6 supercharged at up to 405rwhp. IMO That's the BEST you can hope for.. and certainly not a disappointment.

RandyB · Oct 29, 2004

I think the more expensive-to-produce DOHC engines will now be reserved for high-end vehicles such as the GT and Cobra R, etc. I doubt we will see anything other than a 4.6 or 5.4 SOHC 3V engine, n/a or s/c variants, in the mainstream Mustangs.

Svtpilot · Oct 29, 2004

My first reaction is to agree with all of you. No way is Ford going to put that engine into the next SVT Cobra and anyone who thinks so is dreaming.
On the other hand if in 2000 you asked me what the chances are of the 03 Cobra coming out of the box with 400hp and a blower I'd also say you are dreaming. So although I think it is unlikely we can't just dismiss the idea outright.
Besides I would think that if the GT Motor was dropped into the Cobra the changes to the induction and exhaust systems required would knock down the HP figues a bit.

FallenPhoenix · Oct 29, 2004

they can easily afford to put that engine in the Cobra, but how will you explain to those owners that a new engine alone will cost them as much or more than their entire car cost?

ryanrule · Oct 29, 2004

well the ford gt motors are hand built, assembly line them and that drops the price a bit

Rootus · Oct 29, 2004

ryanrule said:
well the ford gt motors are hand built, assembly line them and that drops the price a bit

Cobra engines have been hand built since 1996.

Dave

Rootus · Oct 29, 2004

Jpjr said:
Lets see, so your saying that they are going to pull the motor out of a $150,000 car and detune it for a $45k Cobra. Hmm.. so with a few thousands in mods the $45k Cobra driver could have similar performance as the GT driver.

GET REAL.

Get real? A few thousand bucks in mods will take an 03/04 Cobra and get you 600+ rwhp.

AFAIK, there are exactly three fundamental differences between the GT motor and the Cobra motor -- the GT uses an aluminum block, it has a bit of extra displacement, and the blower is a Whipple instead of an Eaton. None of that adds a huge amount of cost. Fact is the only reason they are asking $45k for a GT motor is because there are so few, and they're "special". You could have SHM build you something better for half that. Same goes for the crate 03/04 motors... $12k? Gimme a break, no way is that motor worth that, it's just because it's a "Cobra motor".

If Ford wants to put an aluminum block 5.4L with a whipple into the Cobra, they will, and it won't affect the cost of the car as much as some people seem to think.

Personally I'm happy enough with the 4.6L 4V, if they'd dump the Eaton in favor of a whipple, I think that would be perfect.

Dave

Omegalock · Oct 29, 2004

Jpjr said:
Can someone please tell me why they think (besides desire) that Ford would ever put the GT motor in the Cobra?

Ok then answer me why would Dodge put the engine of their 80k performance car into a 40k truck? I'll tell you why in a second.

Lets see, so your saying that they are going to pull the motor out of a $150,000 car and detune it for a $45k Cobra. Hmm.. so with a few thousands in mods the $45k Cobra driver could have similar performance as the GT driver.

1) The performance would be only similar in straight line alone.
2) As has already been said with those few thousand in mods you just talked about the CURRENT Cobra will have similiar straight line performance as the GT.
This isn't really all that big of a deal.

GET REAL. It's just like drug companies.. just because they invented viagara and it doesn't cost them a penny more to make an extra pill does not mean they will give the drug away for free. That R&D is no longer being expensed for accounting purposes. It's being allocated and amortized since the product was seen to fruition.

Yet you will see companies make and sell generic drugs that do the exact same thing they just don't have the name brand. They are getting two markets for the price of one. The people who have the money to buy name brand and those who don't

.
Bottom Line: Ford could not sell the GT for $150k and put the same motor in the Cobra. It's not profitable. This is a big reason why they will likely outsource the Cobra anyway. For product placement/pricing stategical purposes, I would expect to see a 4v 4.6 supercharged at up to 405rwhp. IMO That's the BEST you can hope for.. and certainly not a disappointment.

A GT powered Cobra would no more affect the sales of the Ford GT as the SRT-10 Ram is affecting the sales of the Viper. People with that kind of money are less inclined to get the "best bang for the buck". These people will be cross shopping with Ferraris not Cobras. Ford could have a 600 horsepower Cobra and they'd still sell every last GT they would make and likely they'll sell them at above sticker. Because even if both guys pulled off the lot at the same time and even if the Cobra was able to keep up to the GT on the highway...guess what. One guy is driving a 150k supercar the other guy is just driving ANOTHER Mustang. Heads will turn and necks will snap, panties will drench,skirts will fly up and jaws will drop when the GT drives by.
When the Cobra comes snorting by the only people that will be looking will be other gear heads. For the longest time you could do a little work on an American V8 and blow away exotics and supercars for far less. Does that hurt the sales of those cars? No. Not one bit. Why? Because you are buying an image as much as you are buying a car.
Now I'm not saying Ford is going to do this or whether it would make sense for them to. I'm just saying that the Ford GT would have little to nothing to do with their choice to or not to put the twin screw 5.4 in the Cobra.
I will say this though hearing what Dodge and GM are rumored to have up their sleeves...Ford better step up to the plate with something powerful in the Cobra. 400 RWHP ain't gonna get it done.

351CJ · Oct 29, 2004

Let me see, $44,995 for a 550 HP GT engine or $2,795 for a 260 HP Mustang GT 2V engine.

Let me see, I can get 16 Mustang GT engines x 260 HP = 4,160 HP for the same price.

So what's the better deal.

BaronVonBigmeat · Oct 29, 2004

Well, unless you're buying the engines for a propeller-driven C5 galaxy...you can only use one at a time. Maaaybe two if you were a damn good fabricator.

SadbutTrue · Oct 29, 2004

although I too doubt the Cobra will get the GT engine... the GT will be gone by the time it comes out (by 2007, the GT will be no more, and who knows when we'll see the Cobra, or even if, being that SVT seems to be having trouble atm). It could easily happen that the Cobra will get an engine that approaches the GT's in raw numbers, if not in all areas.

mst1969 · Oct 29, 2004

I too doubt that the Cobra will get the GT engine (but not ruling it out).....BUT....I think that the Cobra will get essentially the same engine, but N/A.....

So I think 5.4L 3V 425-450 HP.....

Jpjr · Oct 29, 2004

Omegalock said:
Ok then answer me why would Dodge put the engine of their 80k performance car into a 40k truck? I'll tell you why in a second.

1) The performance would be only similar in straight line alone.
2) As has already been said with those few thousand in mods you just talked about the CURRENT Cobra will have similiar straight line performance as the GT.
This isn't really all that big of a deal.

Yet you will see companies make and sell generic drugs that do the exact same thing they just don't have the name brand. They are getting two markets for the price of one. The people who have the money to buy name brand and those who don't

A GT powered Cobra would no more affect the sales of the Ford GT as the SRT-10 Ram is affecting the sales of the Viper. People with that kind of money are less inclined to get the "best bang for the buck". These people will be cross shopping with Ferraris not Cobras. Ford could have a 600 horsepower Cobra and they'd still sell every last GT they would make and likely they'll sell them at above sticker. Because even if both guys pulled off the lot at the same time and even if the Cobra was able to keep up to the GT on the highway...guess what. One guy is driving a 150k supercar the other guy is just driving ANOTHER Mustang. Heads will turn and necks will snap, panties will drench,skirts will fly up and jaws will drop when the GT drives by.
When the Cobra comes snorting by the only people that will be looking will be other gear heads. For the longest time you could do a little work on an American V8 and blow away exotics and supercars for far less. Does that hurt the sales of those cars? No. Not one bit. Why? Because you are buying an image as much as you are buying a car.
Now I'm not saying Ford is going to do this or whether it would make sense for them to. I'm just saying that the Ford GT would have little to nothing to do with their choice to or not to put the twin screw 5.4 in the Cobra.
I will say this though hearing what Dodge and GM are rumored to have up their sleeves...Ford better step up to the plate with something powerful in the Cobra. 400 RWHP ain't gonna get it done.

o.k. dude well we'll just have to wait and see who is right. i'm not sure what your idea of product placement is, but common sense tells you that you don't put the motor of a $150k Enzo fighter in a $45k car and expect the $150k car to sell. i've said numerous times on this board that the reason SVT is in trouble is 2 fold:

1. Lack of profitability
2. Poor fleet emissions

mark my words, ford is moving towards selling high magin, high profit sports cars and away from selling moderate margin, gass guzzlers that fill up dealer lots and end up fetching way below MSRP. that's what GT's are for.

forgive me i'm an accountant the expense of building the GT motor is not 'written-off' like you might think. it's amortized. that means that just because they have developed the GT motor does not mean its profitable for them to stick it in focus's just because it exists. that's an extreme point, but valid nontheless.

new22003 · Oct 29, 2004

There is nothing really exotic in the ford GT engine. I think it can be produced rather cost effectively. Remember its still a modular engine with forged internals. Its assembled with a bit more care but as pointed out even the cobra engines are hand assembled. There is nothing super exotic in it. I dont, however expect to see the exact engine in the next cobra.

Svtpilot · Oct 30, 2004

Some of you guys make it sound like the awesomeness of the Ford GT comes only from its motor. There is alot more to that car then its engine. And if you put that engine in a Mustang the GT will still run rings around it. Besides as great as this engine is it is still just a hopped up engine from a Lincoln Navigator. I still don't think it will end up the next Cobra, but it is not impossible.

Don't count on the next Cobra getting the Ford GT engine.

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