Don't sell your Fox

[stang8urimport]

These fox guys like me have limited funds dont think any one meant the fox is better they like it, and main reason is money.
Your a teacher a writer or a white collar critic.
For the blue collared owners of foxes like most of us we buy what we can afford!!!!
Main reason!!!!
In many ways we like them better also now why cant you get that through your thick head and go back tp your new car forum and let us fox guys talk up our cars huh!!!
basically go bug your new car buddies about how easily it is for all of you to make $600 a month payments ect. WE DONT CARE!!!!
gettin any of this?????????????

I'm a blue collar worker. I come home filthy every day with dirt under my finger nails. Doesn't mean I can't have a new car or a new house AND have a clean ass Fox in the garage, and a winter beating AWD Van..

 

[Quikstang]

I actually have to aggree. A good friend of mine owns a shelby GT500. Its modded and puts down a little less than 6 at the wheels. I noticed about two weeks ago, his car was parked next to my Gt, and that thing is HUGE.. Its taller, longer, wider than my car. When we left, I was in the passenger seat, and looked over at my car and the new stangs are so much bigger. when riding in the car, it feels nothing like a mustang.. doesnt sound like one, it does not even have the drone zone at 2500 rpms... I mean, yea thats not something any of us idealy want, but its part of the attitude

 

[Mustank]

i think the only fair way to say something like this, is to go back to the origional MSRP of the fox then mod it from there..

lol. How would that be fair. If you want to play that game, I'd just buy a Factory Five kit car for around $10k and still have $17k for the driveline, once again destroying your new S197 in every performance category.

The song remains the same - if you want a $27k daily driver, buy the S197 (If that was my goal I wouldn't consider a Mustang at all). If you want a $27k race car, buy a fox.

If you don't know how to change your own oil, buy a S197. If you want a car you can rebuild from the ground up in your driveway, buy a fox.

And if the warranty is one of your points of arguement, you can forget about modding your S197 at all, because that warranty will then be void.

Compare the number of foxes running 10's to the number of S197s running 10's. Then compare the cost it took each to get there.

etc, etc....Once again, one is not better or worse than the other - it really just depends on your goals, knowledge and resources.

 

[my70stang]

Sorry for the long post. 5.0 is THE only way to go.

totally disagree with the "THE only" part...older mustangs are just as fun

however it does seem that the new mustangs are a waste of time if youre not the biggest car guy, i wouldnt know because im 16 and cant afford a new one but i can assume

 

[revedup]

I work in an office and never tasted great-poop-on? I also owned 3 fox bodies, can afford a newer one such as 2003 (not a 2007 yet)... What does this have to do with "don't sell your fox" thread?

Some of us choose problems such as owning a fox for a reason Like running pretty much 14 flat with MPH to run in the mid/high 13's with the type of bolt-on a 2 year old can do (CAI, pulleys, headers) Piss off people with the new "all-mighty" car with a ratty old clunking fox body 5.oh yeah baby

me too.

 

[25thmustang]

It is sad when people read and read, and read what Gearbanger101 says, yet cannot comprehend it. I happen to agree with ALL of his points.

All the reasons fox owners think they are better than S197s, are all the reasons the S197s are better. They are quieter, more solid, better ride, better handeling, better braking, basically a newer car. You are trying to compare new cars to old cars, and the old car is worse in every way, and that is a good thing. Imagine if the car was made to handle worse, brake worse, and have less convenience?

I think it is a great thing that non Mustang enthusiasts are buying S197s. The reason is most Mustang guys can't afford them, and if only Mustang guys wanted them they wouldn't sell. Look at what happened to the Fbodies when they ran into that problem.

I am willing to bet all the guys saying how great the fox is, have never driven a truly fast luxury car. Never driven an E55 AMG, M5, modded S4, etc... One spirited drive behind the wheel of a 12 second or faster car that weighs a ton, and has 15 cup holders and you will know why they do things this way! Sure the feel of raw power isnt the same, but the refined power and feel is lots of fun in a different way!

 

[1990Coupe]

lol. How would that be fair. If you want to play that game, I'd just buy a Factory Five kit car for around $10k and still have $17k for the driveline, once again destroying your new S197 in every performance category.

The song remains the same - if you want a $27k daily driver, buy the S197 (If that was my goal I wouldn't consider a Mustang at all). If you want a $27k race car, buy a fox.

If you don't know how to change your own oil, buy a S197. If you want a car you can rebuild from the ground up in your driveway, buy a fox.

And if the warranty is one of your points of arguement, you can forget about modding your S197 at all, because that warranty will then be void.

Compare the number of foxes running 10's to the number of S197s running 10's. Then compare the cost it took each to get there.

etc, etc....Once again, one is not better or worse than the other - it really just depends on your goals, knowledge and resources.

I dont own a s197, I own a fox.. I own one because its cheap, and i CAN change my oil, and I HAVE rebuilt one from the ground up. You dont have to do those things to the s197 because.. ITS NEW! A fox is a project car, well mine is anyways, if im buying a s197 its for DD use, which i would totally do. However you people like it, a mustang is a mustang Its unique, and really none are to be hated on. Some people say this new one isn't a "mustang". I disagree. A buddy of mine has an 06, its no smooth ride over bumps by any means, then again its not as harsh a ride as a fox, but its nowhere "smooth" lets put it that way. I think most of the people hating on everything but the fox are the people out to thrash it at the track, and that is mostly all.

It is sad when people read and read. and read what Gearbanger101 says, yet cannot comprehend it. I happen to agree with ALL of his points.

All the reasons fox owners think they are better than S197s, are all the reasons the S197s are better. They are quiter, more solid, better ride, better handeling, better braking, basically a newer car. You are trying to compare new cars to old cars, and the old car is worse in every way, and that is a good thing. Imagine if the car was made to handle worse, brake worse, and have less convinience?

I think it is a great thing that non Mustang enthusiasts are buying S197s. The reasons is most Mustang guys can't afford them and if only Mustang guys wanted them they wouldn't sell and look at what happened to the Fbodies when they ran into that problem.

I am willing to bet all the guys saying how great the fox is, have never driven a truly fast luxury car. Never driven an E55 AMG, M5, modded S4, etc... One spirited drive behind the wheel of a 12 second or faster car that weighs a ton, and has 15 cup holders and you will know why they do things this way! Sure the feel of raw power isnt the same, but the refined power and feel is lots of fun in a different way!

+1 well said.

 

[25thmustang]

Mustank...

Your points although valid, are all the reasons the S197 is better other than cost... But your missing the thing here, the S197 doesnt need HCI to run 10s. They can run 11s and better on stock junk. Fox bodies with all the bolt ons are low 13s, maybe high 12 second cars on a good day, an S197 will run mid to low 12s with bolt ons, gears and tires. The fox wont have AC, and theres a good chance the T5, or stock axles wont last very long, the S197s have stronger components, ice cold AC, and will net you mid 20 mpg going to and from the track. Toss a power adder into the mix and the S197 is a solid 11 second or better car, the fox might go 11s with a power adder on a stock HCI package, and some people have gone deeper 11s, but not as easily as an S197 can.

The NUMBER of 10 second foxs is going to be more, there are a TON more of them and they have been around a lot longer. Now look at how soon after foxes were sold did they run 10s vs the S197s. I am willing to bet it was a couple years before a fox went 10s, whereas there were S197s going 10s months after they were introduced.

As for warrenty... again I can tell you don't own one. My brother has an 06, and Tasca Ford where he bought it will install everything from exhaust, to chips to SCs, and retain the warrenty. Yes he could have an 11 second S197 with a warrenty as well. Again not owning one or asking around you wouldn't know this, but it's true.

I will say this, my brother is a year and a half older than me. I have had a Mustang since I was 9, had the fox since 15. He drove a Blazer and never cared for Mustangs, or racing. He did however grab a brand new 06 after giving the 05s the model year issues, and loved the car. Shortly after one track visit which netted 13s with a passenger on a hot and humid day he decided to get a fox. Now he has an 86 with a GT40P stock cam motor that went 12.6 @ 107. He races and more or less daily drives the 86, and leaves the 06 for nice days and no bad highway trips. The 86 is more fun, faster, cheaper and is close in the gas mileage department, but the 06 has MANY reasons why we drive it. To turn that into a 12.6 car on a tire wouldn't be tough at all, gears, some suspension, tires (we have them already actually) CAI/tune, and a few small bolt ons and hello 12s. He chooses not to race the 06 because he has the means to have multiple vehicles (and even multiple Mustangs) but if he wanted to spend the money on it, it could easily be just as good a street/race car as the fox, if not better.

I am not sure how long some of the people here ragging on the 06s have been into the Mustang game, but every year people dog on the new ones, simply because they are scared of change. It happened with the SN95s, then again with the 4.6, then the 99+ cars, and now the S197s. I am glad I make unbiased judgements AFTER experiencing a car for a while, not just looking at an ad in a magazine and hating on it right away.

 

[Mustank]

It is sad when people read and read. and read what Gearbanger101 says, yet cannot comprehend it. I happen to agree with ALL of his points.

I understand perfectly - still think that dollar for dollar - foxes are better. And Keep in mind no one here is thinking about stock foxes. I understand completely that most people don't want to bother with modding cars - they'd rather just buy something and drive it. Great for them. Not for me.

All the reasons fox owners think they are better than S197s, are all the reasons the S197s are better.

S197s are better because foxes are cheaper, lighter, easier to work on and have more aftermarket support?

They are quiter

Which should make Grandma's knitting club happy.

more solid

Only time will tell, but I think it's safe to say as far as new cars go, Ford isn't really renowned for building solid cars.

better ride

Refer to "grandma" statement above.

better handeling, better braking,

Again, that only holds true if we're talking stock vs. stock and not cost vs. cost.

basically a newer car.

No ****.

I think it is a great thing that non Mustang enthusiasts are buying S197s. The reasons is most Mustang guys can't afford them and if only Mustang guys wanted them they wouldn't sell and look at what happened to the Fbodies when they ran into that problem.

No argument there. Totally agree that the average S197 driver isn't an enthusiast. Also think it's necessary to keep the Mustang lineage alive.

I am willing to bet all the guys saying how great the fox is, have never driven a truly fast luxury car. Never driven an E55 AMG, M5, modded S4, etc... One spirited drive behind the wheel of a 12 second or faster car that weighs a ton, and has 15 cup holders and you will know why they do things this way! Sure the feel of raw power isnt the same, but the refined power and feel is lots of fun in a different way!

I've driven BMW's (not an M), Mercedes (not AMG), Audi S4, Corvettes, Irmscher tuned Opal Vectras (which you've probably never even heard of). I can't afford any of them and neither can most people who buy new Mustangs.....so what's your point?
Also, S197s aren't even close to the same build quality, reliability, suspension or brakes of any car that you mentioned.

But if you bought an S197 for $27k and spent the other $20k+ that you'd save over buying one of those cars on mods, I bet the S197 would at least be able to outperform them. See what I'm gettin' at???

 

[1990Coupe]

The only thing I don't agree with at all is the build quality statement.. Ford has greatly improved there quality and craftsmanship in recent years. I think you and the general public are still under the impression ford is the same old chit company it has been for the past couple of decades as far as building unreliable crappy quality cars.

 

[25thmustang]

I understand perfectly - still think that dollar for dollar - foxes are better. And Keep in mind no one here is thinking about stock foxes. I understand completely that most people don't want to bother with modding cars - they'd rather just buy something and drive it. Great for them. Not for me.


S197s are better because foxes are cheaper, lighter, easier to work on and have more aftermarket support?


Which should make Grandma's knitting club happy.

Only time will tell, but I think it's safe to say as far as new cars go, Ford isn't really renowned for building solid cars.

Refer to "grandma" statement above.

Again, that only holds true if we're talking stock vs. stock and not cost vs. cost.

No ****.


No argument there. Totally agree that the average S197 driver isn't an enthusiast. Also think it's necessary to keep the Mustang lineage alive.



I've driven BMW's (not an M), Mercedes (not AMG), Audi S4, Corvettes, Irmscher tuned Opal Vectras (which you've probably never even heard of). I can't afford any of them and neither can most people who buy new Mustangs.....so what's your point?
Also, S197s aren't even close to the same build quality, reliability, suspension or brakes of any car that you mentioned.

But if you bought an S197 for $27k and spent the other $20k+ that you'd save over buying one of those cars on mods, I bet the S197 would at least be able to outperform them. See what I'm gettin' at???

SO your basically fighting for the fact that poor people can afford to own cheaper older cars and mod them, and therefore they are better??? If you can't afford one, fine in NO way does that make them better. Also your cheaper, lighter, easier deal isn't really true. An S197 can be made faster for cheaper in my eyes. A fox will need a HCI to keep up with a full bolt on S197, and then when you start tossing power adders at them the S197 will hold the power better. The fox will NEED better brakes to keep up, better suspension to keep up, and better chassis reinforcement to be on par. When you negate the initial cost, to run 12s or better, or to have a 500 rwhp car that brakes, handles, and rides well the S197 is a cheaper alternative simply because it takes less to get there.

The fox is lighter yes, but that is NOT always a good thing. Not sure on the new cars but the fox's have AWFUL weight distribution, which lends to terrible handeling, but okay at the drag strip. The S197s seem much more balanced and get the power to the ground better.

When I mention those other cars I do so in saying why people want a fast sports car (comfortable, quiet, and has cup holders), because they are fun to drive and in todays world you can have it all. I was NOT referring to the quality of how they are built, simply touching on another argument someone mentioned.

I HATE when people try and compare used cars with tons of abuse and miles to new ones, and then try to tell us why they are better. They arent better, they are cheaper to make fast (when we factor in initial cost of buying the car) and put money into. They will never be new cars, or have the perks of a new car. I know you speak for YOU, and actually most of the other people on here, but to think a fox is better because it is cheap, and light is really ignorance in my humble opinion. Take it from those people with BOTH cars in the garage (mine and the 06 are next to each other as we speak), the 05+ cars are better in every aspect, short of being heavier, and initially more expensive.

BUT continue with your opinion on the matter. Good debates spring from two differing opinions on the same matter.

And to add to this, I own a fox (which I have been "restoring" and modding) and have no intentions of owning an 06, whether or not I could afford one. Then again I would never buy a terminator either!

 

[Boss 351]

I'd buy a newer Mustang just so I can stop ****ing around with stupid little things every other day and just mod the hell out of the thing lol

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Hey all i'm saying is for the price you're paying to buy a new car, i can build mine to out perform it hands down....is that too far of a stretch?

Some of you guys have taken this talk WAY out of context...at least from what i was saying.

 

[Boss 351]

It's a choice... what would you do with 30 grand, buy a new Mustang or restore an old fox body and have some cash left over for insurance, fuel and food Or fix up the fox to run in the 11's, pull some serious G's and just feel like a new car.

I think older cars have more personal value than just buying a new Mustang GT and adding some stickers.

 

[1990Coupe]

This has turned into quite a debate..


trying to find a way where i can implement this into my ethics online summer class

 

[Boss 351]

Where's the beef?

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Hey all i'm saying is for the price you're paying to buy a new car, i can build mine to out perform it hands down....is that too far of a stretch?

Some of you guys have taken this talk WAY out of context...at least from what i was saying.

Yes, but you're focusing only on the performance aspect with your line of reasoning. What some of you continue to ignore is the fact that you're still stuck with an "old car" with all of the issues that come with it. Sure if you upgrade all of the components, you could modify the power plant, drive line and brakes to outperform an S197....which right there will pretty much wipe out your budget. But you’re still left the all of the other components (sensors, fuel lines, wiring, bearings, seals, bushings, body rot, general rust, faded/scratched paint, pitted glass, etc, etc) from a high-mileage, 15-year-old plus car to contend with on a daily basis. You couldn't possibly upgraded all the needed performance parts and replace all of the daily driving components subjected to general wear and tear for the price of the newer car.

I'm not sure how you're able to ignore these points when making the comparison, then consider them "out of context" when someone else brings them up. On the contrary....they're in direct context to the conversation. You've got to recognize the low points along with the high point’s dude.

And just for the record, there are plenty of S197’s being circulated into the used car market, either coming up for strait sale, or off lease now with low mileage, that still retain the balance of the factory warranty and can be had in the low $20K range. A lot of which, that their previous owners have already treated to the usual bolt-ons. Just some additional food for though as long as we’re getting specific on the matter.

 

[Boss 351]

What happens if you take real solid fox coupe 4 banger, strip it to bare chassis and get yourself a junked 03 Cobra and transfer everything? Best of both worlds

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Yes, but you're focusing only on the performance aspect with your line of reasoning. What some of you continue to ignore is the fact that you're still stuck with an "old car" with all of the issues that come with it. Sure if you upgrade all of the components, you could modify the power plant, drive line and brakes to outperform an S197....which right there will pretty much wipe out your budget. But you’re still left the all of the other components (sensors, fuel lines, wiring, bearings, seals, bushings, body rot, general rust, faded/scratched paint, pitted glass, etc, etc) from a high-mileage, 15-year-old plus car to contend with on a daily basis. You couldn't possibly upgraded all the needed performance parts and replace all of the daily driving components subjected to general wear and tear for the price of the newer car.

I'm not sure how you're able to ignore these points when making the comparison, then consider them "out of context" when someone else brings them up. On the contrary....they're in direct context to the conversation. You've got to recognize the low points along with the high point’s dude.

And just for the record, there are plenty of S197’s being circulated into the used car market, either coming up for strait sale, or off lease now with low mileage, that still retain the balance of the factory warranty and can be had in the low $20K range. A lot of which, that their previous owners have already treated to the usual bolt-ons. Just some additional food for though as long as we’re getting specific on the matter.

Every single issue you just mentioned you WILL eventually get with any car, so what's the difference? Also yes, i AM only focusing on performance because the rest i can take care of just as easily as another guy can buy a new car. When the average guy who bought the '07 Mustang runs out of warranty and his car breaks down, does he have the tools and knowhow to fix that cutting edge technology? Won't he be faced with the same issues that i am right now, only he'll likely be forced to go to a dealership to get his fixed...while i can do mine myself for a FRACTION of the cost.

C'mon man you can't tell me that my car is going to run any less reliably than a new car if i build a new engine for it. All of the low points are inevitable....with any car. So in the long run, which is truely what should matter....NOT a warranty that's going to expire eventually and you're going to be stuck doing all the things on your own that i'm doing with my car now....the only thing that matters should be what you are going to be happy with.

Warranties are useless IMO unless you run across a factory defect. If you buy a new Mustang, it's going to be stock or mostly stock until you pay it off in 5 years unless you want to void the warranty, and chances are in 5 years your warranty is going to be expired anyways right?

So here's the question.....why are people buying new Mustangs? Not your average person, why are CAR GUYS buying new Mustangs? For the warranty? Probably not since most of them go right out and slap a blower on them and void the warranty (at least most guys around here do).

Basically, "better" is an opinion...period. All the technology in the world doesn't necessarily make a car better. Tell that to the guys who are restoring real vintage cars.....tell the owner of a '69 429 Boss Mustang that the new Mustang is better....he'll probably laugh, even though so many things might be more user friendly, like gas mileage or ride quality....who cares? Those are things that cater to taste and taste alone. In the end both cars are going to need maintenance, but something else nobody is taking into consideration is the PRICE of that maintenance...like i said earlier how many people who own new Mustangs can fix ANYTHING that goes wrong with them? Very very few...most will rely on dealerships or tuning shops to fix their cars, while i'm out in the garage doing it myself saving myself a fortune in cash and getting enjoyment out of knowing that i'm self sufficient with MY car.



So....what's better? Who cares? It comes down to the owner and what you want out of the deal.

Damn i hope this gets read...lol

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

What happens if you take real solid fox coupe 4 banger, strip it to bare chassis and get yourself a junked 03 Cobra and transfer everything? Best of both worlds

NOOONO NO! You're still stuck with an old car that's apparently just going to disintegrate because it's old....lol