Dyno Comprison LS1 vrs 5.0 Combos

final5-0 · Nov 11, 2007

Well Folks

I picked out some average dyno results from AFR, TFS, and OEM Iron
head combos.

I also threw in a Stock Stang as well

I used a 99 Camaro for the stock LS1

The curves got kinda busy
so
I put up some labels to help

As how fair the comparison is

They all got a stick trans
but
They are calibrated differently
never the less
You can see the major trends between them

Not a lot else to say I guess

As always ... If you got Q's or comments ... Let em fly

Grady

Pokageek · Nov 11, 2007

5.0 is closer than I would have thought.

Take the cats off the ls1 or compare it to a stang with cats I would say. But again, who drives around in a stock ls1?

blksn955.o · Nov 11, 2007

I would like to see a comparo with say 331 and 347 fords (mild/avg h/c/i setups...no porting) and avg. bolt on LS1 motors.

I just would like to see some more equal CID comparo's...sadly it would still be bias to the ford with aftermarket h/c/i...but then again you could add some h/c/i stock shortblock LS1 motors too.

Nice to see some good research on this though. I know my buddies 98 formula is a monster for as stock as it is. I like the LS motors power just I am not too impressed with how they age/hold up.

final5-0 · Nov 11, 2007

We were talking in another thread about how impressive stock LS1's were

I think they offer a lot in stock form as well

Sure you could put hot rod parts on one and it would be all the more
impressive

The thing to not forget is we drive 94-95 Stangs and we got a 302
and
They drive F-Bodies and they got 50 more cubes to work with :Word:

You see peeps say a lot of the time ......

We have a hard time keeping up with a Stock LS1
even if we mod our Stangs

I was just trying to show some hard data here ... thats all

I mean ... I'm a Ford Guy

I ain't gonna put forth a massive effort on research
to find LS1 combos in various forms of modification

HOWEVER ... IIRC ... I've got a few 347's in my file
so
I'll throw up one of those along side that LS1 in a little bit

We will all see ... what ... we will see

Besides ... ANYBODY can write a check for a new car
but
Not just everybody can mod a smaller 302 in a 13 year old car
and
Give em a good run for their money

Grady

final5-0 · Nov 11, 2007

Here is a 347 that belongs to one of our own

Most would agree John's combo is not radical at all

Here is how they look side by side

Grady

Adam95GT · Nov 12, 2007

damn thoes lsx engines...

Pokageek · Nov 12, 2007

Well, I think Grady just more than prooved the lsx aint all that if you ask me. Internet Myth more than legend cubes to cubes..

Facts is facts guys, right? Thanks Grady.

94mustangcobra · Nov 12, 2007

my 347 doesn't have aluminum heads or an aftermarket intake, the cam is only slightly bigger than my stock cobra cam. Heads and intake are only gasket matched by me <----first i ever done!

Induction: 80mm mass air, 70mm TB, stock cobra intake, stock GT40 iron heads (1.84/1.54 valves), stock cobra 1.7 roller rockers.

Shortblock: DSS 347 pro bullet w/main girdle, lunati cam (.500/.510 lifts)(218/226 duration), windage tray.

Exhaust: MAC shorty headers, MAC off road H-pipe, Magnaflow catback

Ignition: MSD distro, 9mm wires, ACCEL coil

I'm also running 13.02@104/slicks on motor, my buddies stock WS6 (2002) was only running 13.1 to 13.3 on DRs (both cars are manuals)

oh another side note, i'm only running 9:1 compression and aren't LS1s running 10.5:1 compression

final5-0 · Nov 12, 2007

94mustangcobra said:
my 347 doesn't have aluminum heads or an aftermarket intake, the cam is only slightly bigger than my stock cobra cam. Heads and intake are only gasket matched by me <----first i ever done!

Induction: 80mm mass air, 70mm TB, stock cobra intake, stock GT40 iron heads (1.84/1.54 valves), stock cobra 1.7 roller rockers.

Shortblock: DSS 347 pro bullet w/main girdle, lunati cam (.500/.510 lifts)(218/226 duration), windage tray.

Exhaust: MAC shorty headers, MAC off road H-pipe, Magnaflow catback

Ignition: MSD distro, 9mm wires, ACCEL coil

I'm also running 13.02@104/slicks on motor, my buddies stock WS6 (2002) was only running 13.1 to 13.3 on DRs (both cars are manuals)

oh another side note, i'm only running 9:1 compression and aren't LS1s running 10.5:1 compression

If I combine the parts in your sig and the parts in this post ...........
Is that a complete list of your mods

I mean ... I don't see inj size listed anywhere

If not ... please be specific with A L L mods
like
Which Lunati cam are you using (model #)

If you would be so kind

Look at the above combo check list and use it to ensure you have addressed
each and every one of them

I am very interested in obtaining accurate data with what I see you
have done here :Word:

Also ... I assume the pull was done with a STD calibration

Lastly ... Does ANYBODY know

What that SAE: 1.01 means in the foot notes

Grady

94mustangcobra · Nov 12, 2007

final5-0 said:
If I combine the parts in your sig and the parts in this post ...........
Is that a complete list of your mods

I mean ... I don't see inj size listed anywhere

If not ... please be specific with A L L mods
like
Which Lunati cam are you using (model #)

If you would be so kind

Look at the above combo check list and use it to ensure you have addressed
each and every one of them

I am very interested in obtaining accurate data with what I see you
have done here :Word:

Also ... I assume the pull was done with a STD calibration

Lastly ... Does ANYBODY know

What that SAE: 1.01 means in the foot notes

Grady

Lunati Part# 51014LUN
30lb Injectors
SCT Tuned.....but hey if it were OEM the computer would be tuned differently anyway
no emissions systems

Fluidyne radiator, 3.73 gears, aluminum driveshaft, 180 thermostat, 255lph fuel pump, 50gph fuel pump, stock fuel lines/rails, anything else

oh standard calibration....i have no idea......my dyno sheet says SAE Smoothing: 3 .........dunno what that means

final5-0 · Nov 12, 2007

94mustangcobra said:
Lunati Part# 51014LUN
30lb Injectors
SCT Tuned.....but hey if it were OEM the computer would be tuned differently anyway
no emissions systems

Fluidyne radiator, 3.73 gears, aluminum driveshaft, 180 thermostat, 255lph fuel pump, 50gph fuel pump, stock fuel lines/rails, anything else

oh standard calibration....i have no idea......my dyno sheet says SAE Smoothing: 3 .........dunno what that means

Thanks so much for the additional info

I see what you have done along these lines

A typical stock Stang taken to the next level using OEM parts
then
Instead of going after market NA or power adder with the same block

OR EVEN

Maybe ... one has a block with lots of miles that has become tired

Go for max size OEM block NA combo ... 347 Stroker
but
Reuse most parts with a budget in mind

I see doing the cam upgrade while things are apart as being a good
thing as its not a high dollar item like heads of sufficient size to
support 347 cubes. It also saves a good bit of work.

As funds become available ... heads, intake and so forth can be done

I like the fact we got good, hard data here with your list of parts
and
We also got your pull to see what can be expected with this method

Don't be surprised if you see your pull pop up from time to time
as I do feel it could be helpful to peeps later on.

Grady

final5-0 · Nov 12, 2007

94mustangcobra said:
my 347 doesn't have aluminum heads or an aftermarket intake, the cam is only slightly bigger than my stock cobra cam. Heads and intake are only gasket matched by me <----first i ever done!

I'm gonna see if I can get your combo along side that LS1 later tonight

I spent about 15 seconds looking at each chart

I think we will see some interesting stuff

Grady

94mustangcobra · Nov 12, 2007

final5-0 said:
I'm gonna see if I can get your combo along side that LS1 later tonight

I spent about 15 seconds looking at each chart

I think we will see some interesting stuff

Grady

Here to help

that dyno flog was also in Tallahassee FL in 95 degree weather with 32% humidity and also on the bottom of the sheet it does say SAE 1.01

HankyGT · Nov 12, 2007

Pokageek said:
Well, I think Grady just more than prooved the lsx aint all that if you ask me. Internet Myth more than legend cubes to cubes..

Facts is facts guys, right? Thanks Grady.

IF it really takes a stroker to run above than a h/c/i 302 to eek over it

In all fairness, if you really want to spend 6k on an engine to be on top.

Honest to God, its all cost and preference. If you have the $, chances are unless you really like 5.0's, you're not going to pick one to build off of. However, its alot more $ upfront to get into an lsx car.

Its a money game, always has been. Toss a cam/lid/exhaust/tune ls1 in that mix. IE pretty much what you will see on the street. Not bashing, but just to see a figure. It almost always takes a stroker or a power adder to gun one down.

just being the devils advocate.

final5-0 · Nov 12, 2007

HankyGT said:
If you have the $, chances are unless you really like 5.0's, you're not going to pick one to build off of.

This pretty much says it to me

I do like sbf's ... matter of a fact ... I Love Em :Word:

I do not care for Chevys all that much
even though the LS1 is impressive

I wanna be able to say ........

Thats my Stang
and
I built & tuned it

I'm all about good value for the dollar when talking hot rodding
but
I ain't gonna go so far to make that happen by driving a CHEVY

I don't see your post as bashing

Grady

HankyGT · Nov 12, 2007

Well I sure like working on my 5.0 vs any pre 98 EFI car. Infact, I am selling my lt1 to get back into my old turbo 4cyl car so I won't want to kill someone when it's lame ass optispark ****s the bed

If I had the means, I'd have an ls1 as my 2nd car. I've already over 10k in my stang now (including the cost) and I'd rather not be driving around 20k worth of liquid asset. I'm going for cheaper fun and getting a house next year. I'd rather have a stang and a DSM than an LS1 and be living upstairs at my dad's house

I'll just have to drive my brothers 99z28 when I need my t-top fix

I'll post our dyno charts if we can get both cars to the same place as a comparo....the chart boggles me a tad, cause where I got my car dynoed, a stock 5.0 will lay around 159rwhp.

Carry on.

Pokageek · Nov 12, 2007

Yep. When I got back into the 5.0 market I left the chevy 5.7 l LT1 behind and the turbo 4cyl. I never liked the sound of the turbo 4, I wanted a real man sounding machine!! I loved the sound of the stang and the better interior build quality and the fact that it outclasses a f-body every time. seriously, it does.

I was under the impression you could built a H/C/I stang to outperform and LT or LS1 regardless of their mods. One reason was because I saw stangs beating the 89-90+ z28's even tho they had the advantage in cubes. I didn't realized the stang gained so much weight that it made the car anemic and that the chevys were so far out in front on the engine builds.

I was wrong there. But I still like the stang better. But that 5.0 is PLENTY of engine for that fox body. and it can be built nicely in our pigs but you'd better power add it if you want to race...and win.

Dino Dino Bambino · Nov 12, 2007

I put together my combo for maximum low/medium rpm torque while maintaining good power up to 5500rpm but I haven't run it on the dyno yet.

Name: Torquer 5.0
Heads: DIY ported E7TE
Intake: DIY ported stock, 1/2" spacer
Cam: Stock
TB: 75mm
MAF: 76mm C&L
Injectors: Stock
Rockers: Stock
Headers: MAC 1-5/8" long tubes
Mid-pipe: Offroad H-pipe
Catback: Straight-thru mufflers, OEM tailpipes
Trans: AODE, Transgo shift kit
Tune: Stock
Misc: ASP crank pulley

Mine's an automatic so I'd be at a disadvantage on the dyno 'cause the AODEs put down about 12% less HP/TQ than their T5 counterparts. I've seen similar engine combos to mine but with a T5 put down about 255rwhp and 310rwtq, so I guess mine should be putting down something like 225rwhp and 275rwtq.
Are there any AODE GT dyno runs to use for comparison?

Blackened302 · Nov 12, 2007

thanks for that, Grady--very cool that you took the time to get all that data and compile it.

i must say, i'm not disappointed at all w/ the stang #'s (sure, that's modified, but compared to their 40+ extra ci's and the fact that their head/intake designs are better, we didn't do so bad at all!).

i'm especially impressed w/ the #'s for the 347--awesome!

final5-0 · Nov 12, 2007

I don't usually collect data on auto trans combos simply because I prefer
a stick trans

There can be just so much inconsistency when looking at dyno combos
where an auto is involved

I've seen em go over 20% in some high power cases

Once upon a time, I did do a comparison of an auto and stick 05 Stang

I was lucky to find it on my host site so here it is

My file details showed 280 & 239
so
280 X .85 = 238 for about a 15% difference in this case

Grady

Dyno Comprison LS1 vrs 5.0 Combos

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