Dyno disappointment!!

Pokageek said:

Not to counter but my experience At kauffmans motorsports is they got another 20rwhp out of my car even b4 I put the better intake on comapred to just stock settings. They are good tuners though.

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Maybe the portable dyno was reading high........and you ran a 12.1 with your 293 rwhp.......

just wondering here but being an avid self tuner. What REALLY goes in to tuning for WOT power? Adjusting A/F ratio and playing with the timing curves? Because thats all that really seems to need to be done. Im just thinking out loud here. I think drivability tuning is where the real studs come out. THoughts?

drakesdad said:

Maybe the portable dyno was reading high........and you ran a 12.1 with your 293 rwhp.......

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No I never ran a 12.1 that was KC.

You see this kind of stuff with these dyno threads ... some of the time

Yes as said above ... one should be able to take their car to a shop and
get it tuned to their satisfaction.

The thing is ... what if something ... anything ... is not like it should be
Things along these lines:
combo assembled incorrectly
faulty sensors
v leaks
exhaust leaks
and we could go on and on

Honestly ... for many inexperienced peeps ..............
how can they be certain of the difference between ..............
1) the car has some of the above issues
and
2) its gonna act that way until it gets a tune

Again ... for many who post on here ... this is their first time to deal
with a Stang that has h/c/i ... so ... they have no way to relate.

When they go to the dyno ...........
If they arrive with only #2 being present ... things might go OK
however
If they arrive with #1 ... the owner is in a no win situation
and
The shop ... they can't ... Just make the pull and burn a chip

Neither party in this situation comes out like they would wish

Then...You got the issue of...Did the shop do things like they should
That is always the case when you pay someone else to do work
One can only check for good references and hope for the best

As was said above ... The only way to know for certain is just do
the work yourself. I liked the part that was said about ........
Nobody cares for YOUR car ..... like YOU do

I've spent huge amounts of time on my tune
and
Most of it ... as I see it ... was an investment that has paid off nicely

I taught myself a new skill by basically perfecting the tune as
I learned more and more.

I do all the mechanical work myself
and
I now do the tuning as well

That affords me the good fortune of only needing the shop's dyno for
simple little adjustments in fuel/spark and final hp/tq results.

I just use that shop for their equipment
and
Not their mechanical or tuning service/knowledge
which also helps ... if they try and blow smoke up my tail

Its just me ... I know ...........
but
I have to be the one in control of my Stang
and
I can't stand the thought of anyone else hosing around with it

This always allows me to point an accusing finger at the one who is at fault
when things don't work out as expected

I'm not trying to say Pro tune or Self tune is best
I'm also not trying to say '94ChickStang or the Shop is at fault

I am trying to show how everything has to be just right
before ...
One can get the best possible outcome form putting a combo together

Good thread and good input from all
and
Maybe we can all learn from each other because of it

Grady

WhiteDevil said:

just wondering here but being an avid self tuner. What REALLY goes in to tuning for WOT power? Adjusting A/F ratio and playing with the timing curves? Because thats all that really seems to need to be done. Im just thinking out loud here. I think drivability tuning is where the real studs come out. THoughts?

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John

Below is my brief thought about what all you said



Grady

Years ago I did a write up from start to finish on doing my HCI with pictures and nut and bolt description, from lifting the hood to dyno.

dunno if its still on here or not

I tried it on my own. Grass is always greener. Sorry for your plight. BUT - you hit a very frustrating subjec tfor me and many others from many angles..so hopefully my experience will benefit you:

#1 Most of the folks round here are VERY nice and VERY helpful :SNSign: BUT

Watchout for the - do it yourself. Everyone is real quick to say how great that is - and REAL slow on giving out answers when you get stuck "doing it yourself."

That was my experience when I tried the tweecer. Initially, there IS a lot of info on the tweecer BASICS but hit the difficult parts of the tune and the experienced folk seem to enjoy making you "struggle" rather than just give a answer in english or step by step instruction. I don't have time for that game of CONFUSIOUS or that method of teaching.

PLUS you will end up spending $800-1000 on the right equipment INCLUDING proper 02 sensors and all the extras cuz everyone likes to say "you need to spend money to go fast."

O' and let me not forget the "DISCONNECT" feature where the tweecer would shut the car off at random because it never seated properly on the car's computer box. and yes I followed the instructions to a "T" for fitment..get the gelcoat off but dont sand off the copper connectors...AND I TAPED IT...my dyno chip dont shut off..

I spent $220 to go fast and have it done by the pros and done right with multiple settings. I have everything I want, no guessing games, no thousand $$, no online teachers holding back answers while my car aint runnin right.

My answer = Find a GOOD shop and yer in and out - no worries.

P.S. I don't care for this shop you are dealing with or their answers. I would cut my losses with those terds and go somewhere else. Sorry if that sounded like a rant..but hey I a mentitled every now and then.

Was it running like a box truck when you brought it in for the dyno tune?? Are you having a chip burnt ?
Not knowing the entire story....who did the H/C/I install and the tune after that??

Ahhhh...now i feel your pain....talk about not meeting your expectations...

That FTI combo is pretty much a proven package...I'm sure they'll figure it out...Thier prolly going W.T.F. themselves...

something is definitely wrong. ed's combos pull 300whp all day long on most every car i have seen them on. if the car was running fine before it went in and wasnt throwing any codes, i have a hard time believing that all of a sudden you have sensors that are bad. it sounds like a cop out to me because they dont want to accept the blame. if its running rough like that the first thing i would look at is the timing and make sure the plug wires are all in the correct firing order. the symptoms you describe could easily be caused by something as simple as that. as far as self tuning goes, i hate it. the only reason i have my tweecer is because aside from steeda, who is way overbooked and overpriced due to their reputation in the industry, there are no local places that i would ever trust with my car, let alone making sure it is running up to par. hope this helps you a bit.....

Well Now

Since you said the shop did all the upgrades ..........

That sheds a whole different light on this unfortunate story as I see it

Its this simple

You checked them out and found they have done good work in the past.
Based upon that finding, you paid them to do the same for you.
As was said above, you went with a combo that has proven results.
You did not reap the same benefits as others who used that combo.
As long as the parts are not defective in some way .........
There are only two reasons for the lack luster results

1) They put it together wrong
2) They tuned it wrong

And maybe even this could have happened

The prob could be a bit of both 1 & 2

At any rate ...
The fault lies with the shop
and
It is their responsibility to find the prob and fix it

Hopefully ... the prob is just something simple
but
They should have ensured it was good to go before calling you :Word:

Looks like they could use some improvement in Quality Control

Grady

Not to try and make less of your situation. I just found out today my new engine combo is coming back out of my car.

Looks like I'll miss the SECOND biggest event of the year my club has.

I feel your pain.... good luck!

Always take the high road because otherwise if you get S h !ty it just gets worse...BUT "well you brought your own parts"

So WTH does that mean?:

A. You owe us for buying your own parts so the poor performance evens the score?
B. Your parts suck? We know that is not true based on many folks including grady running great HP #'s with similar set up.

In my o - They have a bad attitude in my and their work is going downhill. It happens to shops I guess.

* Does anyone know if the dyno numbers should be adjusted considering the type of dyno it is? Maybe the numbers are correct for that dyno and in line with our #'s on a different dyno?

Still doesn't solve the runs like crap issue. Vacuum leak?

Your situation is the EXACT reason I am taking the whole engine back. I'm not about to put new headgaskets on and give the builder a reason to blame me for anything down the road. It sucks.... but I'm going to try and cover my arse just in case. Again, not saying he would do it... but just to make sure it never crosses anyone's mind.

'94ChickStang said:

yep it's a painful situation and now I'm playing the waiting game...I haven't heard from them since I visited on Tues, I expressed my concern to the owner and he took the"well you brought your own parts" route (which is bad).

But @ the beginning I told them they could order the parts if it was going to mean the difference between them getting things done right or copping out if trouble came up in the end. Plus, he inventoried all the parts I brought and had no issues w/ them @ the time, he was even impressed @ the stuff and how thourough I was...Looks like he might try to hand me the sh+t end of the stick!!

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I wish you all the luck I can that everything will work out fine for you

The fact you offered to use his parts
and
He did not take you up on it seems quite strange
cause
He blew a chance to do more business for more profit

I think Mr. P saying to try and keep things civil, cool, calm, etc
is a good way to go about resolving these issues.

Hopefully it don't get into a shouting and threat making
kinda of situation.

Again ... Best of Luck and Keep us in the loop

Grady